Online loans from Western Sky Financial and Cash Call
My friend David in the State of Florida was going through some serious hardship. So serious that 3 of his vehicles were repossessed and his electricity was turned off. The vehicles were impounded and the cost to take them out was a total of $12,000.00. His wife went into a very depressed time and was in bed for almost 2 weeks straight not wanting to eat because of the situation. He didn't want to see his family go through this situation and saw an advertisement on TV from a company called Western Sky.
They offered him $10,000.00 cash advance with a payment plan of $743.49 a month @ 89% interest rate. David did not have any financial concept or understanding as to what this meant. He was under the impression that his payment of $743.49 was going towards the money he owed. After 3 months of making these payments his wife saw the statement and realized that the balance on the account was increasing tremendously instead of decreasing. She flipped and started to cry because she knew he had gotten himself into a much deeper whole instead of getting them out of hardship. She called me and ask for help.
I informed that she should try investigating the laws in Florida regarding cash-advances because there should a cap on the interest they charging.. I know for a fact that hard-money can only go up as 18% interest in most states.. but I am not familiar with the laws in Florida regarding revolving accounts or cash advances.
When Western Sky contracted David to give him the loan, another 3rd party company by name of Cashcall based out of California is the one that who is actually withdrawing the money out of his account every month. Why do they have two companies I'm not sure. So I dug a little deeper and found that Cashcall is a registered company in the State of California (C2210310 01/28/2001 ACTIVE CASHCALL, INC. NATIONAL REGISTERED AGENTS, INC) but Western Sky is not.
At this point we don't know what to do to protect David's rights as a consumer or who to go to get help. He does intend to pay the money back, but he wants a fair and decent amount to go towards his principal. I think at this point he's getting ripped off. Can you please help David?
How do we act on protecting David's consumer rights and how do we help him avoid getting ripped off?
—Claudia Torres
Short answer
The interest on these online loans is illegal in many states. Western Sky Financial argued it was a tribal lender operating from the Cheyenne River reservation in South Dakota, and that argument has not gone well in the courts. If the payments are not affordable, the realistic options are to pay only toward principal, close the account the drafts come out of, and file a complaint with your state regulator.
Key points on this page
- Western Sky Financial appears to operate from the Cheyenne River reservation in South Dakota. The same operators have ties to several other online loan brands, including Payday Financial, Big Sky Cash, Lakota Cash, Great Sky Finance, Four Seasons Cash and Red Stone Financial.
- The amount and rate of interest these loans charge are illegal in many states. The tribal lender defense raised against state, federal and individual actions does not appear to be going well.
- One option is to keep paying, but only in an amount you can afford, and only up to the principal of the loan.
- Other options are closing the checking account the payments are auto drafted from, and filing a complaint with your state financial regulation office.
- At the time this page was written, Western Sky was not licensed in Florida, and the state of Florida had an active lawsuit against them.
- Expect collection calls and letters from Western Sky, CashCall, or both, if you stop paying. If finances stay tough, or things reach the point of vehicles being impounded and power cut off, it is time to speak with a bankruptcy attorney.
I am sorry to hear of your friend’s predicament with Western Sky Financial and CashCall. Going further into debt with what most of us would consider usurious loans, like those offered over the internet, offer a temporary measure to fill a cash gap, but are more akin to digging a deeper financial hole. But I get the reasons people will treat the loans as a life line.
I have followed some of the different developments with payday lending, offshore online lending, and so called tribal lenders. I have not kept up with recent events in this area of the debt markets. Your question gave me an opportunity to read up on a good 6 months of developments in the courts and elsewhere.
Western Sky Financial Operates in South Dakota
Western Sky Financial appears to be operating from the Cheyenne River reservation in South Dakota. The same people operating Western Sky appear to have ties to several other online loan operations: Payday Financial Big Sky Cash Lakota Cash Great Sky Finance Four Seasons Cash Red Stone Financial.
Why is their location of any importance? The amount and rate of interest Western Sky Financial, and other payday and internet loans charge, are illegal in many states. The argument Western Sky Financial is making in courts around the country (in order to defend court actions brought by state, federal, and individuals), is that they are tribal lenders. Having caught up on some reading as a result of your question, that argument does not appear to be going to well.
Taking out online loans from Western Sky, or any of their other entities, does result in getting money. Anyone taking out this kind of usurious loan is likely doing so because:
- Your credit score is too low to qualify for traditional loans.
- You are maxed out on credit cards.
- Your debt load is too high to get additional credit – even with a good credit score.
- Like your friend Dave, these loans are only considered when there are immediate hardships and expenses to cover.
My point is, you need the money at the time, found a way to get the money to fill the immediate cash void, and use the loan to get by. As screwy as this is to point out when talking about an online loan that will likely be found to be illegal in many instances, Dave got the money and used it to get by. He may regret the decision later, and learn that there were problems with the loan being made to him as a Florida resident, but what to do about the fact that he got something from Western Sky Financial?
How to Deal with Illegal Online Loans
Some options for Dave to consider when compared to how others have talked about handling repaying, or not repaying, Western Sky Financial would include:
- Closing your checking account payments are being auto drafted from.
- Making payments to Western Sky Financial, but only in the amount you can afford, and up to the principal of the loan.
- Contacting the Florida financial regulation office where you should learn that Western Sky Financial is not licensed in Florida, and file a complaint they can investigate: https://www.flofr.com/PressReleaseDetail.aspx?id=4228
There is an active lawsuit filed against Western Sky Financial by the state of Florida.
If your friend stops making payments to Western Sky Financial and closes the bank account any payments may have been being drawn from, he will need to be prepared for some blow back from either Western Sky Financial, or CashCall, or both. Collection calls and letters are to be expected. It is clear from what you shared that he cannot make the payments, and to do so even if he could, would be paying usurious interest to what is likely an illegal lender in Florida.
If it were me in Dave’s shoes, and I had the money in my budget to pay back something toward the loan every month, I would take a businesslike approach and contact Cash Call and Western Sky to let them know I will only be paying xxx.xx amount each month until the principal is paid. If I did not have the money in my budget due to further setbacks, I would wait and see if things turned around financially and then make an effort to pay the principal, or settle with CashCall or Western Sky or less. If finances remain tough, it may be time for Dave to speak with a bankruptcy attorney. If Dave is at a place where vehicles are being impounded, and power cut off, it may be time to consider his options with bankruptcy now, rather than later.
Anyone with questions about Western Sky Financial, Cash Call, or similar type of online loans and payments, is welcome to post in the comments below for feedback.
1/10/14 Updates to this reader question can be found throughout the comments below. A comment posted by Carol contains a link to more detailed information for Florida residents dealing with Delbert Services, Cash Call, and Western Sky loans. I replaced the previous link to the Florida action against these companies with Carol’s.
About Michael BoveeMichael started CRN in 2004 with a mission to provide people in need with detailed debt and credit help and education. Michael has participated as an expert panelist in federal consumer protection rule making, collaborated on state law changes governing debt consolidation, has worked as an expert witness in court matters related to the debt relief industry. He is available to speak with you about your financial struggle and helps people resolve their debt problems daily.
Can someone please help me with the process of what to do and a cease and desist letter. I am from Indiana and can no find anyone here to help me. I have contacted the AG office and they said that they are not the person to call. I had taken a loan from Western Sky for 2500.00. Thanks
Betty
Please email me at garymbenson (dot) gb (at) gmail.com and I would love to give you a cease ad desist letter that I used. Have you tried to contact your state department of banking? I contacted the Attorney General in Nebraska first but it was the Department of Banking and Finance who ultimately was able to help me. I would think there is a similar department in Indiana. Gary
Can someone please help me with the process of what to do and a cease and desist letter. I have from Rhode Island and can no find anyone here to help me. I have contacted the AG office and they said that they are not the person to call. I had taken a loan from Western Sky for 2500.00 I had been paying 294.46 every month. I have paid that amount back and a few months interest. When I started reading these postings I stopped my payments. When I had contacted them before stopping I owed more than I had borrowed from them. Does anyone have any information who I should contact in Rhode Island to help with this matter. I have been getting calls and letters from Delbert Services which state” lower payments to bring my account current” and different payments options to pay the balance off. I feel that I have paid the balance off. I see that NJ and Nebraska have been taken care and would like to know what I needed to do. Thanks for your help.
I had taken out a western sky loan for 2,500. Paid it back in about 5 months, so the interest was about $1,200 total. I received a letter from NYS about the lawsuit, and today got a refund check for $1,120. So happy the Attorney General here went after them.
I just wanted to let everyone know that I received a call from the Nebraska State Department of Banking and my debt with Western Sky/Cash Call/Delbert Services has been written off and stamped paid in full. The contact at the Department of Banking told me to have anyone else in Nebraska who is in the same position to contact his office. If you want that contact information please feel free to email me.
Yes, Gary I would love the information. I am struggling with them here in Nebraska as well. I posted my situation a couple of days ago on here. I would love the contact info. as soon as possible. Thank you so much!
Abbie
Please email me at garymbenson (dot) gb (at) gmail.com and I would love to give you their contact info and more details about how I started the process. Don’t be discouraged because you can stop paying them immediately.
Gary
Abbie
I tried to give you my email address but am not sure it will go through. Here is the contact information just in case. Please feel free to email me. I would be happy to provide you with my cease and desist letter that I sent Delbert and any correspondence I have had with the attorney general or the department of banking.
The person you need to contact is:
Michael McDannel
Legal Counsel/Financial Institutions
Nebraska Department of Banking and Finance
1526 K Street, Suite 300
Lincoln, NE 68508
Please let me know if I can do anything to help you
Gary
I just sent you an email. Hopefully, it worked!
Well today I got a letter from Delbert saying now my loan is in there collections and has been given to a account worker .I live in Tennessee caint anything be done to them where I live ? I checked my credit report they haven’t gone anything yet to it but I’m worried they wil trash my credit and maybe try and garnish me .The interest rate for Tn is capped off at 24% the interest rate for the western sky loan was 124% .Can anybody help me?
I borrowed $9,925.00 from Western Sky, now Delbert Services in Nebraska. I have paid over $13,500.00 when someone told me they are not licensed in Nebraska. I have revoked my ACH through my bank and filed a complaint with the CPBF and I sent them a certified letter. In that letter I advised them to close my loan and refund my almost $4,000 dollar overpayment. I just received a letter back saying that their loan is valid and that I agreed to it all. I feel so desperate. Does anyone know anything about Nebraska and what they can or can’t do? Or who I should contact?
Just got 3k today from the New York settlement.
Evening, I’m from Dallas , Texas and I took a loan last year for $2800. I was paying $294 a month. I paid $3528 plus $500 in origination fee for a total of $4028. I was frustrated because after a year of paying $294 I still owed $2743. I went ahead and paid it all off after taking a loan from a family member. Is there something I can to do to help out and possibly get some of the interest returned to me that I paid?
i final got delbert services off my credit report! cash call is still there{but its not a bad item}{western sky is on as a enquirer}!
I WROTE Experian
a letter this one included my law sue with new jersey against Delbert services, cash call ,and western sky! in the letter i included the court docket # 14-014322
now i had in the past disputed this like 12 times!
but in this letter i include that new jersey was filing criminal charges in them, also if they didn’t remove this criminal item off my credit report i would be force to hire a lawyer and sue them! for repeatedly leaving criminal false items on my report!
with in a couple of days it was removed off my report
John Oliver did a great segment about Payday loans on his show recently.
Hi, I live in Tennessee.can Delbert, Plain Green,Great Plains and mobiloans sue me?I have loans with all them,I contacted Delbert about lowering my payment I got the 1500 loan from western sky,they said no so I closed my bank account now waiting to see what happens.I found out the usury limit for Tennessee is cap at 24% my loan with Delbert is 124% and the plain green plains and mobiloans are even more.Can any of them sue me and garnish my pay check,what can they do?
CHRIS , THERE whole contract with you is void because from the start because it’s not legal to loan money at more than you said 24%. file a compliant with your state bank dept
most likely they are not legal to be doing business in tenn !
they will say that it was legal , but it is not!
it has taken a lot for me to get it off my credit report, i filed charges against them start to go after the credit company for keeping a false report on my file! before i got off but it is off, the new jersey AG SAID I MAY GET BACK EVERY DOLLAR I PAID THEM!
I just received a letter from Delbert telling me I still owe them over $3,000. The state of Indiana is a of the CFPB lawsuit. I already paid m the amount I borrowed plus interest. I am not giving them any more until the out come off the lawsuit. I have already file a complaint with CFPB and Indiana, both responses came back from Cash Call stating that r debt us valid, blah blah blah.
I also received a letter stating that Consumer Loan Trust is the new creditor of my account with Western Sky; but Delbert is still handling the account.
Are people responding to these letters to dispute the debt or just ignoring them as just another tactic by these companies to try to get money out of people?
I live in NJ and am just hoping NJ comes to a settlement similar to Maryland as opposed the PA settlement.
Also, I got a response back from the CFPB that they received back from Delbert Services. I still do not understand why Delbert Services is answering on behalf of stuff that is being sent to Western Sky. But basically when questioned about the fact that the drafts kept going back and forth between Delbert and Cash Call there excuse was that there was a glitch with the vendor that was doing the ach drafts. They did not address the legality of neither Western Sky or Cash Call not being licensed in the state of Texas. They also did not address the 2 different “notice/transfer of sale” letters that they sent to me with totally different dates as to why there was to different letters for the same company. And the best part: The complaint was filed against Western Sky YET Delbert Services responded to the complaint from the CFPB and then in their first paragraph in response stated that the CFPB needed to contact Western Sky!!!! How crazy is that. Needless to say I will be doing a dispute
Another question maybe you could answer Michael: If western sky sells the loan to a non tribal company, does that nullify the supposed legal jargon and the tribal immunity they are so called claiming?
I could not say. If you first establish tribal immunity is valid, I suppose the contract language would have contained all of the usual jargon all of our credit cards and other loans contain, the right to assign, sell, place, etc.
Michael maybe you could give some insight: I think the biggest win for everyone is what your states’ Dept of Banking or whatever office is in charge of licensing these types of lenders. What I am finding in several states is that it specifically says in their wording on these tribal lenders is that in order for the Tribal lender to be exempt under federal laws of not having to be licensed etc., they have to be a wholly owned tribal lender. In other words, they have to be owned by the tribe. If they are not owned by the tribe, then they are not exempt from the federal laws. And truly this makes sense because if that wasn’t the case, anyone who had an ounce of any type of indian blood in their system would be setting up businesses left and right with a “reservation” address and claiming tribal immunity. As far as I can tell so far from what I have seen in all the legal documents, Western Sky is not a wholly owned tribal lender. As a matter of fact, I believe there was an article that included and interview with the tribal elders of this reservation that Mr. Webb claims to be affiliated with and they have even said that they have nothing to do with this business he is running and that he is even violating their tribal usury laws. Several state’s websites have a complaint form you can fill out if the lender is claiming to be a “wholly owned tribal lender” and they are not. I know Kansas is one of them. I am trying to find out for other states. I am hoping this is helpful in overruling their supposed belief that Western Sky falls under the lender laws.
I have read over similar findings. The tribal dog won’t hunt. How any of that will impact the final consent or settlement of each state case, or the federal action, I can only guess at.
Mike: I read this in an e-mail today, can you explain what all this means? Thank you.
“Federal district court grants CFPB petition to enforce CIDs issued to tribal lenders
Posted: 28 Jul 2014 10:44 AM PDT
Jeremy T. Rosenblum
A California federal court recently issued an order granting the CFPB’s petition to enforce its civil investigative demands (CIDs) issued to three tribally-affiliated payday lenders. However, the court also granted the lenders’ request for a stay pending their appeal to the Ninth Circuit. Although the CFPB did not oppose the stay, the court nevertheless found that if its decision was wrong, the lenders were likely to suffer irreparable harm because of the disclosure of sensitive proprietary documents to the CFPB whereas the CFPB would not be injured by a temporary delay.
The court rejected the lenders’ argument that, as arms of sovereign tribes, they were “sovereigns” and therefore were not “persons” to whom the CFPB can issue CIDs under the Consumer Financial Protection Act (CFPA). According to the court, controlling Ninth Circuit precedent established the rule that laws of general applicability such as the CFPA are presumed to apply with equal force to Indian tribes. Such precedent also recognized three exceptions to the rule where (1) applying the law would interfere with a tribe’s right of self-governance on purely internal matters, (2) applying the law would abrogate treaty rights, or (3) there is proof that Congress intended to exempt tribes. The court found that the lenders could not show that any of the exceptions applied.
The court also rejected the lenders’ argument that the CIDs were barred by tribal sovereign immunity because, in its view, settled Ninth Circuit law provided that sovereign immunity did not bar a suit by a federal agency even when Congress has not specifically abrogated tribal immunity. The lenders’ were also unsuccessful in their attempt to have the CIDs invalidated on the grounds that they did not provide adequate notice of the purpose and scope of the CFPB’s investigation, demanded evidence beyond the scope of any possible violation, and were overbroad or unduly burdensome.”
It basically means hurry up and wait still. That said, it is an important part of progress for the case to proceed. Once the CFPB demand challenges that are being appealed are shown to be valid, the lender can be forced to comply. The result of that could be everything the CFPB asks for is turned over. The case could develop more rapidly from there.
I have received a response from Delbert to the AG in Nebraska basically saying the loan is legal. I have paid $4,779 on a $2525 loan and they now say I have reduced the principal $3.50 and still owe $2521.50. I have closed my account and responded to the AG with a detailed letter on their response. Hopefully this will lead to the AGs Office taking action against them.
I am pasting a copy of an earlier posting that gives me hope.
Julie says:
Is there any way to find a list of the states who have filed suit against them?
Per and earlier comment and just recently my own personal experience, if you contact Experian and let them know that your attorney general and the CFPB is currently suing Delbert/WS because they have committed fraud and are operating illegally in your state, then they will remove the loan from your credit report. I did make sure to tell them I have paid back the amount the AG says I needed to have paid.
Perhaps they are aware of the situation and removed the item from one day to the next without asking for specifics. As far as I care, if it is not reporting on my credit report it makes no difference to me. According to the AG of the state I reside in they would not have a standing in court if they tried to sue me for the illegal interest.
Thank you for the information. Delbert has now listed on my credit report as a charge off !
I am curious did you file an online dispute or did you call Experian directly ?
and what state do you live in ??? I am in NJ ! Still waiting on our AG to do something !!
DD, I called them directly to file a dispute because I figured it was better than writing an online one and not being able to properly explain to the reviewer why I called and the whole situation in general. He seemed to completely understand and said they would have it removed as soon as the next business day. (It seems reporting agencies are a little worried of more of these coming along, especially why it’s widely known several AGs, and the CFPB, oppose the business: https://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2013/07/woman-sues-equifax-wins-186m-for-credit-report-errors.html ). I can imagine a class action against the reporting agencies would go into the billions based on the numbers affected.
I am in north carolina, where they have essentially banned payday loans (most had to close up shop, only pawn shops are left).
It seems payday lending is not prohibited or explicitely permitted in NJ, but if someone does a ‘payday’ loan it must comply with the maximum allowed interest rate, 16% ( https://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/payday-lending-state-statutes.aspx ).
I found this for NJ, not sure if current, but I believe it is the same maximum rate as NY has and therefore NJ should be able to argue the same case as them. ( https://loansandlending.uslegal.com/interest/new-jersey-interest-rate-laws/ )
I would call experian an argue that NJ has the same interest rate laws as NY and they just got a settlement so you expect the same to happen in your state. Also, maybe you are covered in a lawsuit in that the CFPB is also suing them. Make sure you file a complaint with both your AG and CFPB. I’m guessing your AG is just lazy and waiting to ride on the coattails of other states, unless he feels WS has a legitimate presence in your state.
Regardless, WS is not a tribal entity, but rather wholly owned by a tribal member. Same as my saying I’m a resident of another state and therefore not subject to NJ laws. I don’t believe tribal sovereignty extends to members of the tribe as a carte blanche to do whatever they want across the US. If going the Experian route did not solve my problem I would have taken them to JAMS and presented the argument I have here as well as the same ones that have been filed by several AGs. Good luck!
Dilbert Services I followed your lead and called experian. They removed nothing just continued to update Charge off. Any advise as to HOW to get this removed ??
Thank DD
dd 7/23/14 i talk to the new jersey investigator he said the new jersey Ag is going to file on monday Docket No. 14-014322 – Western Sky Financial / Cash Call / Delbert Services
his information is Troy Dayton
Investigator 1
Enforcement Bureau
P: 609-984-2777, Ext. 50230
F: 609-292-5461
Address – Regular Delivery:
NJ Department of Banking & Insurance
Division of Banking – Enforcement Bureau
P.O. Box 040
Trenton, NJ 08625-0040
Attn: Troy Dayton
Overnight Address:
NJ Department of Banking & Insurance
Division of Banking – Enforcement Bureau
20 West State St., 5th Floor
Trenton, NJ 08628
Attn: Troy Dayton
or the AG OFFICE Attorney General’s Office. If you would like to follow up with them to make sure that what you sent was sufficient for its purposes, the number is 609-292-4925.
Curtis I saw your post from the other day and I reached out to Mr Dayton who I had been in contact with since last Oct. this is the reply he sent me 🙁
I hope this gets settled soon ! …….
Yes, your information was provided to the AG’s Office to be added to its Complaint. Unfortunately, I have no status as to when/if this Complaint will be filed in court. You can try and obtain a status from the AG’s Office at 609-292-4925.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Troy Dayton
Investigator 1
Enforcement Bureau
P: 609-984-2777, Ext. 50230
I am having the same issues with Delbert Services. I have paid $4,854 on a $2,525 loan which they now tell me has a balance of $2,510 after 17 payments. I have contacted the Attorney General in Nebraska and the CFPB. I have also closed the account they are drafting payments from and opened a new account at the advice of my bank. Should I email Delbert and tell them to cease taking payments from my account? I think I have paid enough. Worst case I guess I pay the $2,510 to get out from under it but I don’t think that is reasonable.