Getting Your Debt Settlement Letters and Agreements From Debt Collectors

Negotiating debt and paying the new agreement requires a settlement letter. In the wacky world of debt collection, debt buying, and credit reporting, paying off a debt you settle without having a documented agreement, is a mistake. And one you will regret later on if the credit card you thought was settled (other types of debt too) resurfaces in a way where a written agreement to accept less could show the account was resolved, instead of the headaches you may go through without one.

Reaching the point where you have a verbal agreement to settle and pay off a debt for an amount you can afford is exciting, and a relief at the same time. You must be careful not to lose sight of what are still critical concerns before celebrating your success. This debt relief program report will help you focus on crossing the debt settlement finish line with confidence – when your success is documented..

When you are negotiating direct with creditors, your settlements are generally going to be reached verbally first. The verbal agreement will be for a set amount of money either paid all at once, or paid by making several installments over a set period of time, until the settlement agreement is met.

It is important that you understand the deal is not done until it is documented and fully funded consistent with the terms and payment timelines laid out in a debt settlement letter.

Verbal communication with creditors and debt collectors are a necessary part of the debt negotiation process. How and when to communicate with creditors and debt collectors to negotiate with them is covered extensively throughout this site. Ongoing communications over the phone with your original creditors and debt collector’s can progress until you have the money you need to settle.

You should not attempt to negotiate an account, or offer a settlement amount, until you have the targeted dollar amount you need to fund an agreement. It makes little sense to start negotiating a settlement amount if you do not have the money to pay. Just making calls to “feel out the situation” wastes your time and could hurt your efforts later.

Your targeted settlement amounts will be different from one account to the next. If you are working with someone in the network, you will be able to set realistic settlement percentage targets, timelines, and goals using real time data about your creditors and the debt collectors involved.

If you are a DIY reader be sure to participate in the comment sections of relevant page topics in order to get feedback about timing and targeting for your debts you are looking to settle. The comment section at the bottom of this page is the perfect place to post questions about a settlement letter you have received, or what you could do if you are having a hard time getting one sent to you.

Negotiating the payoff agreement and reviewing the settlement letter.

Reaching a settlement agreement can take one phone call, or it may take several calls over a period of days, weeks, or even months. When a deal is struck you know that no deal is a real deal until it is documented, and then paid in accordance with the agreement.

Debt settlement letters with original creditors and debt collectors are typically a standard form that will consist of the following:

  • The creditor and/or debt collectors name.
  • The date the letter was drafted.
  • Your name.
  • Your account number.
  • Outstanding balance owed on the account (this is sometimes missing and is not a deal breaker).
  • Amount that is being agreed to as settlement and satisfaction of the debt (less than the full amount owed).
  • Terms and amounts of payments to be made – if you are settling the account over a period of time – instead of with one lump sum.
  • Date your payments must be received by in order to have met the settlement agreement.
  • The settlement letter must reference that the account being satisfied in full i.e. “settled”, “settlement of this account”, “accepted as settlement in full”, “paid in full”.

The letter will have other general information such as disclosures about settling debt. Creditors and collectors put this information in to cover themselves. The bullet items above are what you want to see in a settlement letter to cover yourself.

Settling with a third party debt collector means you must get the above details documented before remitting any payment towards the agreement. If the above bullet items are missing from your settlement letter you should request a different letter be sent to you that meets the above specifications.

Check out this quick video about debt settlement letters:


Setting up payment agreement dates without the letter.

Some of the large banks will not release a settlement letter to you until your payment arrangements are set up in their computer system. They will request that you give them specific electronic or ACH payment information over the phone first. Should you agree to this? Yes, in some instances.

If you are experiencing a creditor or collection agency holding back sending you a settlement letter, be sure to post about that in the comments below to get feedback about how each one of your creditors deals with this prior to settling, or negotiating your agreement and setting dates for payment. This way you know what to expect beforehand, or can navigate the negotiation and settlement process of a specific account with more confidence.

Schedule your first (or only) payment for a future day that gives enough time for the settlement letter to reach you by mail. 10 days or longer would be best.

  1. Make payments on the settlement from your bank account that you set up specifically for saving and funding the agreements. This is covered in the report: Saving up for settlement.
  2. If you do not receive the settlement letter within 72 hours of when your payment is scheduled for processing, you can call and demand the letter be faxed to you, or the funds will not be available in the account.
  3. You should be prepared to walk away from a deal if you do not have documentation in hand before the payment date. As a caution, be certain you don’t have the funds in your set aside account on the date you set up a payment – if you are walking away from a deal.

Providing information and setting payment dates in advance of having received a settlement letter is usually only an option I consider when dealing with original creditors, and in some limited instances, debt collectors working for your original creditor.

Do not release payment information to debt buyers, or debt collectors working for debt buyers, without documentation in hand.

There are some instances where I will recommend you record a phone conversation about agreeing to settle a debt. I always encourage you to tell the debt collector that you are recording the call and why (they refuse to send you the agreement in writing before payment is set up).

Receiving debt settlement letters via fax.

Technology has provided many conveniences and cost savings when communicating important details that require documentation. Documents can be emailed with the click of a mouse. It may surprise you to learn that banks and collectors do not readily take advantage of technology advancements. You will find that many internal recovery specialists (bank employee debt collectors), and outside debt collectors working for collection companies, are not allowed to email anything to you. One way to work around the delays of getting settlement letters mailed to you is to get them faxed to you.

If you do not have access to a fax already, you can set up a virtual fax service. This would give you a 10 digit fax number that others can send documents to, and you can receive the faxed documents as attachments to an email, or receive an email notice a fax has been sent to you to log in and download or print.

One of the services I recommend to receiving debt settlement letters via fax is The cost of an efax account, or similar virtual fax services is low. Setting up a way to receive faxed settlement letters is worth the cost when dealing with time sensitive communication and funding of settlement agreements you have made. Getting the settlement letter faxed same day is especially handy if you follow some of the “end of month”, or “end of collection agency contract” strategies that I lay out on this, and other personal finance sites.

Working with a debt settlement company, or a professional negotiator, should not mean you let your guard down about getting settlement agreements documented and in your hands. Just because someone else is handling the heavy lifting does not mean you should not be concerned about having copies of all settlement letters. Be sure to get a copy of all debts that have been negotiated and funded from any professional you work with as each of your debts are being settled.

With business trends for electronic data storage, and the fact that computer systems can crash, physical documents this important should always be in you possession.


Negotiating and agreeing on an amount you will settle a debt for is primarily going to be done over the phone. Once you have a verbal agreement it must be followed up with documentation. The settlement letter should meet certain requirements before you remit payment in full, or make a partial payment. If you do not receive a settlement letter, or a letter does not include what is standard information to protect you, it’s okay to walk away from the deal. You can receive settlement letters via fax and mail (sometimes even email). No settlement letter means you don’t have a deal. Keep all settlement letters in a safe place with all of your other important documents.

Post your questions about debt settlement letters and agreements in the comments below for feedback.

If you are new to the CRN site and would like to get comprehensive information about settling debt, you will want to read through the debt settlement section of our free online debt relief program. Get started with: An introduction to debt settlement.

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  1. Linda says

    Hi, I’m here on the behalf of my sister who had recieved a letter from MCM and they want 708.71 abut the current balance is 1,181.19. The payment due was 9-7-12. They said they have a great new offer for NEW customers and said they purchased YOUR new t-mobile account. They said they’d be able to offer a discount of 40% off the current balance IF WE RECIEVE PAYMENT BY 9-7-12

    “what in it for YOU? Once MCM recieves your payment of $708.71, we will: Notify the credit bureous that the debt is “paid in full. ” “immediatly stop all recovery activity on this account.

    • Linda says

      My question do you know if you really owe them and second if they are a real debt collection agency? I actually went down to the t-mobile place and asked them but i don’t get why its so high..

      • Michael Bovee says

        Linda – The settlement letter you refer to is a common offer letter from a collection agency. I can assure you MCM (Midland Credit Management) is a real collection agency. They are part of the largest collection outfit in the nation. That letter is dated from last September and not valid anymore, so do not act on it. Your sister will need to call and negotiate the same, or better settlement deal, and get a new settlement letter sent before sending in payment. Your sister can authorize you to speak on her behalf (if she is not up to it), either verbally with you on the phone, or in a letter that can be mailed or faxed in. You would call in to get the fax number to send the authorization letter signed by your sister. Then you could negotiate with MCM and get the settlement letter sent or faxed.

        If you want to make certain Midland Credit Management is legitimately collecting on the Tmobile account, your sister can call in to Tmobile and verify that Midland bought it. Just be aware that it is likely “Midland Funding” that bought it. MCM is part of the Midland brand. See this post for more detail: Midland Funding, MCM, Encore Capital

  2. Joe says

    Hi Michael,

    I’m back with a new issue that I want to consult with you. You’ve been a great help to me in my last problem having been sued due to one of my credit card debts. Your advice and helpful insights encouraged me to face and work on resolving the matter.

    Now, I have one more defaulted credit card that I want to settle. Original creditor is WAMU. Previous collection agencies were Cavalry Portfolio and Central Portfolio Control. Now, JC Christensen and Associates called me up and offered a settlement. How would I know that they are now the legitimate owner of the account. I was asking for a settlement agreement but the agent told me they will send through email. I requested an agreement in writing with signature through mail but told me it would take 30 days. Should I settle for an agreement through email?
    Also, I want to pay them by check but instead the agent wanted me just to provide the routing number of our checking account to facilitate the payment. What do you think is the safest way at the same time will protect my rights in negotiating and settling this account. Thank you very much.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Joe – A settlement letter with an account like this is a MUST. An email will not cut it. JC Christensen and Associates is a debt collector who settles debts in the normal course of business. They have a settlement letter template they will be using that does not take a month to fill in. You can ask them to fax it to you instead of mailing it. Faxing settlement letters is a normal occurrence (though there are some creditors and collectors that insist on mailing – but it still does not take a month).

      Once you have the settlement agreement in hand, paying the settlement can be done through a check by phone. I understand why you would exercise caution, and if you absolutely prefer to pay by check, stick to your guns and let them know you will send via fedex or UPS and the check will be a money order or certified check. If you do this, I would encourage you to get the certified check issued from your own bank with the amount drafted from your bank account for later tracking and proof of payment ease, should you ever need it. But again, paying via a check by phone method after you have a letter in hand is much more common nowadays and also provides you ready access to proof of timely payment should the need for it arise.

      • Joe says

        Once again, thank you very much for your timely response and informative advice. Can’t thank you enough for all the help you have extended to me. Will definitely follow everything you have told me and keep you updated for the settlement of this account.

        • Michael Bovee says

          You bet Joe. I look forward to congratulating you with successfully settling all of your debts when you get the settlement letter on this JC Christensen Cavalry account.

      • David Pavlakovich says

        With all due respect, Michael, that was bad advice on paying using a check by phone, or really ANYTHING that gives them access to your personal accounts. Once they have the account numbers htey can access your account any time they want, and they will do it. It’s like giving them an entire checkbook of blank, signed checks. It will then be up to YOU to prove that you did not give them this access, and that will cost you more time and money than most people are willing to spend. Also, if they decide to take more than you agreed to, and the ACH “bounces”, some states will treat this as a “bad check”, which opens up a whole new can of worms, and gives them rights to collect from you and makes it next to impossible for you to fight. in SC, they can seek treble damages, and will probably win. In Texas they can actually put you in PRISON for a bounced check – and they do it.

        A buch better way is using the certified check as you mentioned. Draft it from your account so it leaves a paper trail, make it from your bank so it is easier for you to get verification that they cashed it and NEVER, EVER send them a dime until you have the negotiated letter in hand that has ALL of your terms in it on their letterhead and signed by someone who has teh authority to sign it. They will provide it if they know they won’t get the money without it.

        • Michael Bovee says

          David – I understand the caution about payments. My favored way for paying the deals people negotiate, and once documented, is from a specific set aside account more fully outlined here:

          When dealing with legitimate and recognizable debt collectors these days, the payment and access to bank account information concerns are a bit overblown. Your account information is something not to be used without an agreement in place, but once that is done, any payment bad behavior can be immediately addressed with a phone call to the collection company, and if that does not yield quick results, filing complaints with the CFPB. Again, this is when dealing with legitimate collectors who are not going to risk their company, and many thousands of dollars of compliance money, over a single collection account. Debt collection scammers are another matter entirely. And scams do exist to pluck money from bank accounts.

          Encouraging people to hold out for a letter with all of their terms on it is not realistic. Too many people think they are going to get debt collector agreements to include that they are going to delete any negative credit reporting, or that the debt collector is going to go against established IRS guidance on issuing a 1099c.

          • BJ says

            Hi Michael,

            I received a debt settlement letter from an attorney for the original creditor. There are two accounts involved. Should I be concerned about any of these issues:

            Both amounts on the complaint are different than the amounts in the letter. One is off by a few pennies and the other off by a couple of dollars. The account numbers referenced are NOT my credit card account numbers. They are internal account numbers for the law firm or the bank.

            The letter mentions that I am obligated to pay the full amounts plus interest and attorney fees. In exchange for my payment by the deadline, then both accounts will be satisfied paid in full – the one current default judgment cancelled.

            The attorney asked me to send payment in his self addressed stamped envelope. I am going to send it by ups so that they can’t say they didn’t receive it by the deadline.

            Is this normal? I don’t want them to cash my $10,000 and check and then later come back to say I signed an agreement saying I owe the full balances plus interest and attorney fees and the accounts referenced were maybe not mine. Only one has account has a judgment.

            • BJ says

              And to add – it says “this settlement agreement is made effective the ____ day of August 2014. It is left blank. I’m worried if I add the date that may alter the agreement and make it void. It is already signed by the bank. Would there be a chance they would cash the check and say that I altered the agreement so it is void?

              • Michael Bovee says

                These days BJ, with the CFPB paying such close attention to banks and debt collectors, even if they did try to pull something (it would be more from human error than a con), you can fix this stuff up in a matter of weeks. The kind of thing you are concerned about happening – some kind of debt settlement bait and switch – would likely be deemed unfair and deceptive. The bank, and the attorney collector working for the bank, do not want that kind of scrutiny.

                If something does happen, post about it, and lets go from there.

            • Michael Bovee says

              What is the precise verbiage used in the part where they are saying ” In exchange for my payment by the deadline, then both accounts will be satisfied paid in full”.

              Generally speaking, what you summarize is pretty normal. Creditors do sometimes use different internal numbers after your account goes into default. Who is the creditor? Who is the attorney firm you negotiated this with?

              • BJ says

                First Citizens Bank. Attorney firm is Hatch, Little, Bunn in NC. Exact verbiage is: “The bank agrees, upon receipt of said funds, to mark the credit card accounts “Paid in Full and Satisified”, to cancel the judgement in AccountXXXXX, and to inform the appropriate credit agencies that the obligation of the Debtors under these accounts had been paid and satisfied.”

                The attorney said he would dismiss the pending lawsuit with prejudice but he does not specifically include this in the above. He is also including this “BJ is obligated to the bank in the original principal sum of $10,562.47 plus interest and legal reimbursement under a cc agreement denoted as accountXXXXX.” Is it normal to have to sign agreeing to this? This is regarding the one pending lawsuit.

                Also, it is not dated and the last page says “the parties have executed this agreement under seal prescribed by law as of the day and year first above written. The first paragraph has ____ August, 2014. No day is filled in. I don’t want to send a check for $10,000 and then find out the contract is not valid. Or, if I enter the date, won’t be altering the contract and they can say “I made changes to it” and it is not valid?

                The reason I am so concerned is this bank is known for doing underhanded things to even others I know. They once sent me a letter when I used to bank with them warning me of how they were going to swipe money from my bank accounts. The postmark on the envelope was after the date they swiped the money.

                One of the lawsuits is against the business and the attorney in writing agreed to give me a 30 day extension in order to work out an agreement instead of being forced to use the funds to hire an attorney to represent the corp. Well, he lied and got the default judgment.

                Other people I know have also received letters where the bank specifically holds them and sends them after the fact. I could go on and on with the horror stories about them in my area.

                Is it going to anger the attorney if we ask him to date the settlement agreement and add in our account numbers for future reference. And to ask him to specifically address dismissing the lawsuit with prejudice?

                I will post the settlement percentages and amounts for you to add to your list once this is all done next week…hopefully.


                • Michael Bovee says

                  You should not care much about the attorney getting pissed about you protecting your own interests. And thanks for the follow up details, it helps.

                  I know a few people at the North Carolina AG office who take debt collection shenanigans pretty seriously too, so add complaints to the your AG along with complaints filed with the CFPB to the list (but as pertains to consumer debts, not the business ones).

                  It would not hurt to consult with your own attorney on this stuff.

                  • BJ says

                    The sad thing is I am here because I am not getting clear answers from my attorney. I hired one just to review the settle agreement and all he says it is fine and you worry too much.

                    He hasn’t specifically addressed my questions and doesn’t want to get involved with the other attorney. He said to write in my own account numbers and the date and initial and sign it. I have asked twice if this technically voids the contract (since the other party has already signed) and he doesn’t reply to that question. He also hasn’t addressed the “with prejudice” part. And he hasn’t answered the part of why I am being asked to “admit” to a pending lawsuit.

                    Thanks for your replies today.

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      I am not an attorney, and what I share should not be considered as legal advice.

                      In my opinion, you are worrying too much, at least about this one (there are reasons to worry about collectors and debt negotiation).

                      I too would write in my own account details, dates, etc. If they accept the agreement back, and cash the check, I will hold them to it if there were any later developments.

                      There is really no reason to get hung up on the with prejudice part. The agreement and payment would resolve the account. Any later lawsuit would create a situation where I would sue for FDCPA violations. I have just the consumer attorney to refer you to if that should be the case.

                      Like I said, the CFPB and the NC attorney generals office care about how debt collectors deal with you. If there is an unfair or abusive practice, the CFPB is rooting those out, or solving the one offs with consumers in a couple week turn around right now. None of this means you do not have to be careful. You still do, but I would proceed with what you have if I were you, and given the information I have right now.

                  • BJ says


                    I want to send you details of my settlements so you can add the info to your list. Is there an email address I can send it to? Or am I supposed to post everything publicly?

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      If you are not sending the document as an attachment for me to review, just post the verbiage and your concerns herein the comments.

                      If you want to get me a scanned copy of the letter, send it to the email address you get these comment notifications from. That address comes directly to me.

  3. Joe says

    Hi Michael,

    Sent you a copy of the settlement agreement from JC Christensen. Kindly confirm if such document is a good one? If you think its good enough, should I opt to pay over the phone for easy payment by giving out my checking account routing number? Should I request them to give me a letter that said account was already paid and settled? Thank you for taking time to answer all my questions, really appreciated it very much.

    • says

      Joe – I reviewed the settlement letter you sent me for the Cavalry account being collected by JC Christensen. It contains what you would want to see, or would need, later if any issues arise. I would not have any problem making the payment over the phone if I were you. I assume you are asking about requesting a different settlement agreement about the account being paid for credit reporting purposes. That is unnecessary. You are paying it. If Cavalry has an entry on your credit report now, pull copies of your credit report in 60 days and be sure that it is showing zero due. If it still shows an amount owed, its an easy enough fix. Just post an update about that and we can go from there.

      That was your last account right? Congrats!!

      • Joe says

        Hi Michael,
        Paid the settlement amount already. Yes this is my last account though the other one is in conditional settlement up until June of 2013 upon satisfaction of full payment. Will definitely follow your advice to check my credit report if this account will zero out. I was told by JC Christensen to call them after April 18, 2013 to follow up the letter on full settlement of the account.

        A million thanks to you for all your help and advices regarding all my debt problems.
        If anything I could help you just email me.

        Thanks again

        • Michael Bovee says

          Joe – My pleasure. If you are up to it you can always leave a comment on our review page:

          I created that page years back. I asked members to post what ever they cared to after they completed their goals with us. We then switched to questionnaire/feedback forms and I stopped directing people to the page. The page could use some life… I should probably point more site readers we help (non paying members) to the review page.

  4. RScales says

    I sent out settlement offer letters 30 days ago to the date, 2 of them were delivered and accepted but 1 was left a notice and still has not been delivered but recently sent me a statement saying they don’t understand why I’m refusing to pay this debt (dated later than my settlement letter). What should I do about these that have not responded to my letters? And the one that hasn’t been accepted yet but it was sent out, does that mean I have to start over or the 30 day thing still applies??

    • Michael Bovee says

      RS – I need to know a little bit more of what you have going on. Who are the debt collection agencies, or creditors, that you sent out settlement offer letters to? Post a comment reply with answers and I will be better able to respond with meaningful feedback.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Rs – Sending your own offer letters to settle debt is not how the vast majority of deals get done. Communicating direct with the lender, in this case a service provider, using the phone, is the most productive approach. I want to help you reach your goals of settling the medical debts, but I have many questions. Those questions are best answered on one of our existing pages about medical debt. Here is a good one to post some more details to if you are up to it:

          It would be great if you would post more details in a comment on the above linked page.
          How long ago were the debts incurred?
          What state do you live in?
          Were any part of the bills covered by insurance?
          What are the amounts owed, and what is it you stating you are prepared to pay in your settlement offer lenders you are sending?

          You mentioned that you are concerned about what to do after 30 days of sending the settlement letter in your above comment. There is no requirement for anyone to respond to a settlement offer you mail them. You may be referring to something more like a written request that a debt be validated. If so, we can get into that on the other page.

  5. LM says

    Will a credit card company still be willing to work out a debt settlement AFTER they have filed suit for debt payment? Or are all my options exhausted once they’ve filed suit?

  6. basi says

    How do I request a settlement with a collage and receive official collage transcripts.
    My daughter was attending Collage of Saint Elizabeth NJ, I went through a divorce and I couldnt afford the collage, school loans were denied and she was asked to leave school.
    My daughter owes the school 15,500 they turned her account to collection agency, collection agency bill is for 19,500.00 after many years of struggles I would like to settle the account with the school and receive the official transcripts. Is this possible?

  7. PW says

    Hi Micheal,
    I had a Bestbuy Credit card owned by Capitalone which is now in debt collection with IQOR Allied Interstate. My balance owed was 1066. Before reading your website, I agreed to pay them $614 with a down payment of $50 with my debit card. With a balance of $564. After reading your website, I immediately called my debit card and cancelled. Then called Allied and asked for an address to send them a letter so I could get the settlement in writing. The associate advised they don’t have an address to give me and it was unlawful to do so. Then she advised if she gave me the address it would totally void out our previous agreement and i would have to pay the balance of $1016.
    What is my next recourse? I googled the address for Allied it came up an address in Ohio from the BBB website but the associate was calling from New Jersey. Should I send the letter to the address from BBB website? Should I continue to engage the associates when they call back?

    • Michael Bovee says

      PW – I am at a loss for why a debt collector at Allied Interstate LLC would tell you it is unlawful to give you an address. Whether this is fair to say about Allied Interstate collections or not, when I hear something like this I assume that Allied had no intention of settling fairly with you.

      Allied Interstate LLC is a large debt collector. Settlement letters and written agreements are part of their everyday work flow. I will say that your suggestion that you create and send them a settlement letter is not part of their normal work flow. You do not a settlement letter on your letter head, you want one on theirs, so make them send one of theirs to you via mail and/or fax. Believe me, they can whip one up rapidly. If they refuse to, they never had a legitimate intention of settling with you.

  8. M.C. says

    I’m in the process of negotiating a settlement for our young adult daughter. The original creditor was CareCredit. Initial credit granted was $3,500. The original terms were something like 6 or 12 mo’s same as cash. Though, it mattered not, as right out of the gate they told my daughter her first pmt was late and that she lost the introductory apr. She called them when she didn’t receive her first bill and they said she had requested online billing, though she insists she didn’t and can find nowhere in her paperwork where this is stated. She can never resolve the issue with the apr and begins paying the $100 per month with the goal of doubling/tripling pmts and just getting it paid off. Each month she pays the acct on or before the due date online. (I witnessed this!!) Despite paying a few days early or on time, she keeps getting hit with $35 late fees! (A common complaint w/Care Credit all over the net!) Month after month after month. She tries calling for an explanation and to resolve, even asking for full payoff amounts so she can settle but those amounts are ever-changing and not in an insignificant way!! She gets transferred, disconnected , left on hold for 20-3o+ minutes or ends up trying to communicate with reps that she cannot understand and this goes on!! (That complaint, also all over the net!) Other than the occasional venting about what a nightmare they’ve been to deal with she doesn’t tell us (her parents) what has been going on as she feels it’s her responsibility to deal with. After 3 years of payments, the apr continues to rise and there is no change in the balance. As a matter of conversation I recently ask her where she is with this “nightmare” account of hers. She confesses that after her hours were cut significantly at work, she stopped paying. The acct was referred to Portfolio Recovery for collection. Portfolio says she owes $2800(!!) but will settle for $1,800. She explained her payment history but was basically told,”oh well, that’s what you owe.” She takes no further action as she has no money and the acct gets sent on to Hyat Hyat and Landrau Law Firm. She received the first letter from them yesterday. (Despite the letter stating something to the effect “no attorney has reviewed your acct for specifics” I confirm they are in fact a legit law firm licensed to do business in Fla where she resides. I also confirm via her local court records search, as suspected, they have yet to file anything. ) She contacts the firm and authorizes them to speak with me. I called them today and explained the amount is far in excess of what she says she owes based on her own calculations and pmt records. “Oh well, this is the info we have” and they offer to settle for $2,800, then go to $2,400. I told them Portfolio originally offered $1,800 and that essentially… my daughter has a part-time job, no money, no assets and unless she hits the lotto this weekend, her situation will not change in the foreseeable future. We go in circles and their last and final offer to settle is $1,717. I ask him to put it in writing. He tells me he isn’t authorized to offer this reduced amount and that he must get an approval to do so. He tells me, if approved, he will email me the settlement offer. Based on what I’ve read about Hyat Hyat and Landau online, I’m a nervous wreck! Everything is negative, “scammers”, “not to be be trusted” etc etc. So, if you’d be so kind, a few questions… Is it okay for them to email me the settlement offer? (You recommended to someone else that it be faxed.) And because of their reputation online, should I ask for anything above and beyond what a typical settlement letter should include? I’m losing sleep over this… any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

    • says

      M.C. – First, be sure and get some sleep. No part of this is worth that. It may sound simple coming from someone who has been at this type of thing professionally for a long time, but it really is just math. You get them to agree to the math that works for you and your daughter, and they, being debt collectors, determine if that amount that works for you is as much as they think they can get, or are willing to accept.

      A settlement letter sent via email as an attachment is not a problem. It can be printed and saved etc. An agreement to settle in the text of an email is lacking qualities you would want in a written settlement letter if push ever came to shove where you would need it. Fax and mail is the most common way to receive a settlement letter. I have done email attachments.

      Portfolio Recovery Associates has a system with 3rd party debt settlement companies where the verification of a settlement comes in the form of text contained in an email. I do not like the practice and would never accept that for a customer, nor would I encourage someone to accept it in their DIY efforts.

      Hayt Hayt and Landau may indeed need to get approval on the settlement amount from Portfolio Recovery Assoc. But the amount they are sticking to in the settlement is not that drastic a reduction, and Portfolio Recovery approves that type of discount on a fairly regular basis. If it is not approved it will be because they think they can get more.

      Here is my suggestion: If they approve and you can fund the 1700 offer, get the agreement to settle in writing (not text in the message body of an email), and fund it. If they waffle in any way, especially on the written settlement letter, pass on the deal. Reach out to them middle of the month or nearer the 20th and start negotiations anew.

      Yes, Hayt Hayt and Landau does sue for collection. It is likely that Portfolio Recovery Associates have given them authorization to sue if need be. If that occurs, the same amount of money you have available to settle this old Care Credit debt can be used to retain an experienced debt collection defense attorney (even less than 1700). Debt buyers have a tough time winning their claims out in court when you have experienced representation.

      Let me know how things develop in a comment reply. I will offer my feedback and can refer you to helpful resources if need be.

      Get good sleep. One way or another you will get this dealt with, and help your daughter.

      • M.C. says

        What you do is invaluable, I’ll sleep tonight, thank you so much!! Just for clarification… I can accept the settlement letter if it comes as an attachment? (This is assuming it has all necessary language.) And regarding going back to them if we can’t get agree now… I guess I was concerned about them immediately filing, possibly unbenownst to her, as there are several stories online where people had complained that they never rec’d a summons but only found a suit had been filed when they learned of a judgement against them.
        Fyi, no the $1,700 is not a problem (our daughter knows that which is why I wish she would’ve come to us sooner) but I started to worry that I had hastily agreed to too much. Thank you for letting me know it wasn’t unreasonable to just pay it! 😉

        • Michael Bovee says

          M.C. The settlement letter you would get as an attachment to an email will, in all likelihood, be the same letter you would get over the fax or through the mail. It is actually not that common, especially with a law firm, to get the letter attached in an email. It’s an option though.

          The risk of suit if you are unable to agree to the settlement, and get the written agreement, is real, but not the end of the process. If the deal does not get done, check the court every 10 or so days to see if they filed. That way your daughter cannot be caught by surprise like you have read about.

          If paying it in full, you still need the agreement in the form of a letter outlining this. It is the only thing (along with proof of payment) that you should need to confront any mistake if the debt somehow mistakenly ends up in another debt collectors lap (it happens), or to get the credit report updates if PRA fails too (also happens).

          • M.C. says

            Thanks so much for the clarification. Hopefully, this gets resolved quickly. I’ll update (or be back for help!) soon.

          • M.C. says

            Hi again,
            I received the settlement letter today via an email attachment. Boiler plate language ” Letter shall confirm that we can settle the above referenced file for $1717″ etc etc. The letter is from HHL and it lists Portfolio Recovery as their client but original creditor is shown as “Atlantic Credit & Finance/CareCredit.” CareCredit was the original creditor but my daughter has no idea who Atlantic is? She says the original agreement said CareCredit/GE Capital. From what I could find online, it appears they are another collection agency. My dtr says she’s never heard of them or from them and that she was only contacted by Portfolio then HHL. Any idea why they’d be listed? And do I need to be concerned that now they’ll show up on her credit report as a collection acct? Any help/info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

            • Michael Bovee says

              M.C. – Atlantic Credit and Finance is indeed a debt collector/debt buyer. They may have purchased the rights to the CareCredit debt followed by PRA, or some variation of legal rights to the debt occurred along the way to resolving it now. Your settlement letter may just be reflecting that chain.

              Not knowing what appears on her credit report regarding this account, I cannot really offer meaningful feedback about Atlantic Credit showing up later. You could get a copy of her 3 credit report and cross reference all entries and inquires regarding this account. If ACF is not on there now, I doubt they will show up later.

              • M.C. says

                At this point she has only ordered one copy of her credit report and Atlantic is not showing on it. Oddly enough, neither is the original Care Credit account, only the Portfolio collection acct. Though I realize Care Credit may be showing on the other two bureaus reports. I thought we’d give it 45 days or so, then order all three, see what’s on them and go from there. Thanks again!!

  9. M.C. says

    Oh…. one more thing. I asked if they’d do “pay for delete.” He claimed he didn’t have the ability as HHL didn’t do any reporting to the credit bureaus-which does make sense-but couldn’t he ask Portfolio to include that as part of the settlement? Otherwise, her credit is damaged for the next several years regardless with both the original creditor and Portfolio showing derogatory info, yet I’m still settling it for an awfully high amount. (Though I feel compelled to do so as based on what I’ve read HHL will go for a judgement.)

    • Michael Bovee says

      Hayt Hayt and Landau does not do the reporting, and they will not get Portfolio Recovery to agree to any reporting other than updating the account as paid and a zero balance showing (which they have to do anyway). Her credit will bounce back quicker than you may think. Especially by taking smart steps to improve and restore credit deliberately.

      • MC says

        Hi Michael,
        Just a quick follow up to let you know we received the acct settled/zero balance letter this week from Hyat, Hyat & Landau and all is well. For what it’s worth, my experience was that they were fine to deal with, professional, respectful etc. Not what I ‘d expected based on what I ‘d read online prior to reaching out to them. Thank you for your help!

        • Michael Bovee says

          MC – Thank YOU for posting the update. It is also good to hear the experience you had with Hyat-Hyat-Landau was amicable. There are certainly topical debt collection websites and articles full of hyperbole. Many with a tendency to over complicate what is a relatively straight forward process. Out of many thousands of conversations with a debt collector, I have only ever hung up from one and thought to myself “I would have preferred to have gone my whole life without that conversation”.

          • M.C. says

            You’re welcome!!! If you don’t mind, another quick question?! I was thinking I should have my daughter apply for a new credit card with the intention of rebuilding her now damaged credit. My thoughts were that she wouldn’t be turned down as I’d co-sign (my score is 801, we have zero debt, we own both our homes and vehicles-no mortgages, no loans). Is that a good idea? (Yes, she can be trusted to not take advantage!) Fyi, she has no debt either, no car loan, no mtg. Her only other account besides CareCredit is a Discover card which she’s had for approx 6 years. It presently has a 0 balance and was always paid on time.

            • Michael Bovee says

              MC – Either as an alternative, or in addition to a new account, consider adding her as an authorized user to one (or two) of your existing and longest established credit cards.

              Do you both bank at the same place?

              • MC says

                No, we don’t use the same bank and that is a GREAT idea, though I only have one major credit card thru USAA and I only use that once a year for travel and then pay it in full. Would that still help her? It does have a high credit line and I’ve had it for years.

                • Michael Bovee says

                  The limit and length of time established for the one account will be good. Adding an account of her own will accent that. Diversity of credit after establishing revolving accounts would be next (installment loan, auto loan), but when she has stable income.

                  She may not need you to cosign for a new revolving account. I like as a matching tool for accounts that are more likely to be approved for someone on every rung of the credit ladder.

                  I would also encourage you to speak with USAA about some of their credit products, as there are some good ones their for her too.

                  • MC says

                    Thank you for the link! Yes, USAA has a secured card that may be a good option if necessary. It just occurred to me that I failed to mention that she is now married. Is that a reason to not add her to my account? Or to not co-sign if necessary? Fyi, they have no joint credit and he has no debt either. Other than her CareCredit acct, they’ve been doing (and believe in) “pay as we go” which is a good thing. In fact, she only has the Discover card because it was offered pre-approved when she was all of 18-19 years old, so it seemed like a good idea to accept it to establish credit. (Scary, she was sent multiple pre- approved offers back then as a student with no income!) Regarding the Discover, it generally has a zero balance as she doesn’t really use it. Maybe once/ twice a year she’ll put some school fees on it but then pay it off in 60 days or so. Would more activity on the card help her rebuild faster?

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      MC – Married status would not change the perspective of building an individual credit profile.

                      Here is how I see it:

                      Has one derogatory collection account that has now been resolved. Has one positive Discover card trade line. Get set up as an authorized user on your USAA, wait 3 months after that shows up on her credit. Apply for an unsecured card on her own using a matching tool like linked above. Within the next 6 to 12 months find a meaningful way to establish an installment loan trade line (car, pop up camper trailer if your into that, etc), and here is where you would be helpful as a cosigner if needed.

                      It sounds like your son in law also needs to establish credit. He can start off using a matching tool like through, or apply where he currently banks. If income is steady, they could apply for an installment loan together in the next 6 to 12 months without a cosigner (though they may get a better interest rate with one).

                      More activity on the Discover card will not necessarily help boost a credit score or profile, but buying something with the card once a month that you were going to spend money on anyway (lunch, tank of gas, bag of groceries etc) instead of using cash, and then paying the bill off every month is a good safe method to show consistent credit activity.

  10. SV says

    A lawsuit has been filed against me from the attorneys at Midland Funding.
    I have negotiated a payout prior to any court appearances. They will accept a check by phone in which they take 45 days to send me a receipt of payment or they will accept my debit card in which I will receive a receipt within 3 days. I would like to get a receipt promptly, but does this matter since I will have the settlement letter with the payout price and a bank statement showing that release of funds?

    • Michael Bovee says

      SV – A receipt for payment after it is received and processed is nice, but in my experience not necessary. Your reason for wanting a receipt are met when you have a settlement agreement in writing before making the payment, where the settlement letter clearly outlines what will be paid and by what date, either in one payment, or over several months of payments. You keep that letter and your record of payments in a safe place. Your bank statements will act as your receipt should there come a time you need to show proof of payment if something comes up down the road.

      • SV says

        Thank you. Your site is invaluable!
        Also, they claim the dismissal of the case can take up to 45 days depending on how busy the court is with paperwork. Even though I will be settling this with a one time payment, do I need to file anything with the court as far as a response to the summons or can I watch and wait as long as I have made my payment?

        • Michael Bovee says

          SV – It really should not take 45 days to file a voluntary dismissal with the court based on how busy the courts are. Docs get filed every day in court houses, busy or not. What does take a little time is for funds to clear and for the law firm to calendar work. It is also fairly common to tell you “as much as” 45 days, but have it be completed in a matter of a couple weeks.

          Watch the court docket and make sure they followed through within the 45 days, if not, post an update and lets take it from there. It will be simple to prod the finalization if necessary, but no need to go into that, unless it becomes necessary (and I don’t think it will).

  11. JM says

    My wife owed about $10,000 in credit card debt and hired a debt consolidation company to negotiate a pay off for each of her accounts (about 5 cards). The monthly payment plan was over a two year time period. They stated that once the agreed payments were paid in full that all accounts would be settled. They told us that if we received any bills in the mail from the CC companies to fax the statements to them. Once the account was paid in full, they told us that all the cards debts were paid off and closed except for one (which had the most money owed on it from the start). Because of penalties and interest accruing over the two years, the debt now for this one account was over $14,000 and we were sued directly by the credit card company and had to negotiate another settlement independently with them which took another 9 months to pay off. When we tried to contact the debt consolidation company that originally should have been negotiating this for us we found out they had laid off a bunch of people including the person handling my wife’s account and had moved, yet I think they are still in business. Early on, they also sold our debt consolidation account to another company (which was almost as if the representative we first had the agreement with took the account with her when she changed jobs). Since we paid a fee for them to help us thru this process and they neglected to settle all the accounts, is there anything we can do about this? We kept all the paperwork and emails thru this whole process. Thanks.

    • Michael Bovee says

      JM – If I understand your comment correctly, you paid for a settlement service on the one larger account that they did not resolve for you. Is there a part of your agreement with the settlement firm that speaks to how the fees would be considered earned? Were your fees being paid in advance, or were fees earned once each debt was resolved by the company?

      What is the name of the debt consolidation company you used?

      I should ask if you have copies of all settlement letters and payment agreements for the accounts the company did complete for you?

      • JM says

        My wife paid a fee every month (instalments) to the debt consolidation company to settle a number of CC accounts, but the biggest one wasn’t settled at the start and it grew as time went on as they were working on the other accounts. Yes, we have settlement letters for all the accounts that were resolved. Started with Simon & Bocksch which sold it off to Lloyd Ward & Associates. The first agreement may have even been with another company when it started out prior to S&B.

        • Michael Bovee says

          JM – Your original agreement with the settlement company should outline what options you have with accounts not settled. I know the two companies you mentioned. Both charged fees in advance of service. It may be tough to get any money returned to you from the one still open. Have you requested the fees for the account you settled on your own be returned to you?

  12. Aaron says

    My wife has Dillars as a creditor. We initiated a settlement request with them and they accepted an offer. I have dealt with a few creditors before and thought it odd because they will not send a letter until after pmt is made. My wife has spoken with a Supervisor as well and they all confirm that they dont offer settlement letters as document proof until pmt is applied. I advised my wife we would hold off payment until more info was gathered. Do you have any info regarding this situation?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Aaron – No settlement letter or written agreement means you have not reached a settlement. There are times where you can set up a future payment date, say 10 to 14 days out, with the expectation that you will have the settlement letter in hand to review prior to the payment pull date. This method for getting the letter kicked loose is more likely with an original creditor, and never something to entertain if you are dealing with an outside debt collection agency.

      Are you speaking directly with Dillards, or a debt collector?

        • Michael Bovee says

          No documented agreement about the terms of the settlement means no payment. There are very limited exceptions to this rule. What is the name of the collection agency?

        • Aaron says

          The most recent communications came from my wife speaking with Dillards directly confirming the same thing about policy. They assured her of a settlement letter 7-10 days after payment

          • Michael Bovee says

            A collection agencies assurances do not go far. If I understand your comment correctly, Dillard’s collection department assured a letter of satisfaction would be released after payment as well, and it may well be, but there are enough instances of settlements not going according to plan that I caution against making payments without documentation.

            An alternative would be to record the deal and agreement for documentation over the phone with both the agency and Dillard’s. Letting them know you are doing so as a result of their policy to not release the terms in writing.

            I am asking for the name of the collection agency in the event I recognize the agency as one that plays fast and loose.

  13. Michael says

    After rejecting my settlement offer, I finally arrived at an agreement for payment with the assigned collection agency. I verbally spelled out the terms of the contract, which were acceptable to them; however when I asked them to send me confirmation of the pay plan, she said no formal written agreement would be forthcoming and that I just send the money and she would send an email once my payment was received. Michael, my question is, are the Collection companies required to acknowledge Payment arrangements in
    writing (Contract) or else what protections do I have. The balance amount has changed 2x. I don’t trust them. Thanks M.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Michael – debt collectors and collection agencies are not required to send a written settlement letter or agreement in most instances. Your protection is that you do not agree to, or make a settlement payment, until you have it documented (there are limited exceptions when dealing with your original creditor). Who is the assigned collection agency you are dealing with?

  14. Lorlina says

    Michael, I received auto-Express letter from Dynamic Values Nationwide agency in San Marino, CA, with the bold letters: Stated: Court Case Notice. Had two phone calls, debt collectors told me to settle my account which they bought from the original company. He say’s was $4,000 but if you want to settle for less its only $1,020. Told him to send me an Itemized of the original bill and he says if I send that to you it would be $2,000 plus. What should I do need your help. Please let me know. Thanks! LA

    • Michael Bovee says

      Lorlina – If you want to settle with Dynamic Values Nationwide, asking for an outline of all charges is more like requesting debt validation than for them to send you a settlement letter. Do you recognize the original creditor and the debt as your own?

  15. Laurie says

    I have an outstanding debt with Continental Finance who sold this accout to a buyer by the name of Mainstreet Acquisition Corp. The original amount was for $789.51, but since then they are adding interest and late fees, so the bill is now $1,438.38. Received a letter from AmSher Collection Services, Inc. who demands the full amount over the phone now, with a $9.00 charge for the payment. I am trying to negogiate a settlement, but they refuse to put anything in writing until I give them my account information. Today, they called and stated “That if I wanted a settlement letter to be emailed to me, I would have to email my request to the Director of Operations because of FDCPA rules? Do I have it emailed and take it for the words written or do I write one myself and send it registered mail?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Laurie – When did you last make a payment to Continental Finance?

      Sending a letter outlining the terms of a settlement agreement is standard. Any debt collection agency in business more than a week is used to this. Dealing with a collection agency like this means getting it in writing, and not emailed. Sending in an email request for a settlement letter to the operations manager is just weird. I do not know if you said something in your conversation that put the debt collector on his/her heals, and they just did not know how to handle it, or if they are a new collector just covering themselves, but it is odd.

      If I were you, and I am serious, I would email the director of operations a link to this post and nothing else. If they want to get paid they should release the letter. I would not budge from getting the letter from them first. Especially given the behavior you outlined.

      • Laurie says

        I had never made a payment to Continental Finance. They closed this account and sold my account to a debt buyer by the name of Mainstreet Acquisition Corp on February 2009. I made one payment to Mainstreet in 2011 and could not make any more payments. Now comes AmSher which was given the account to collect on April 21, 2013. AmSher began with calling my home number asking me my name, then repeating the same request without wanting to verify themselves. I only verified myself once and then demanded to know who they were and what company they were calling from. When I continued asking them what this was concerning after verifying myself once, they told me that they were following the rules of FDCPA and therefore were allowed to ask me to verify my name again and birthdate before they verified themselves. Being tired of this, I began recording the conversation and it ticked them off. Also, Mainstreet Acquisition Corp is continuing to add $24.00 in interest unless I set up payments over the phone because they are more secure, but also have a $9.00 charge per payment. They also got upset when I told them I wasn’t going to set up a payment this way because they seemed to be changing the rules as they went along. Got a call from them today saying that they were willing to send me a debt settlement letter in writing through fax and/or email, but I had to email the Operations Manager because they were so called being forced to follow the FDCPA because I had to give him permission in writing because they send out legal debt settlement letters and they had to follow the law. I did some research on FDCPA and I could not find anything regarding any of the issues described here except what they could and could not do. Any help would be appreciated

  16. Michael Bovee says

    Laurie – Given the additional info you have shared I do think you put them on their heels a bit. That is not your problem though.

    Receiving the settlement letter by fax is completely fine. I still do not get why they are requesting you email the operations manager. It is silly. But it could be because of how the interactions have progressed thus far. Most people calling debt collectors, or picking up calls from collection agencies, do not experience multiple references to the FDCPA.

    This whole thing has me curious. If you are up to it, once you receive the settlement letter, I would like to review it with you over the phone. Post a comment update when you have the agreement and I will email you at the address you use to post here.

      • Michael Bovee says

        Laurie – It was good to talk with you in review of the settlement letter. Please keep the comment string updated with any new developments.

        • Laurie says

          Well I should have listened to my inner voice that said stop…..something doesn’t sound right. As per our discussion, I did call Main Street Acquistion and they did sell the account to AmSher, but were completely unaware of any settlement that was reached between Jason Borkovec – the so called Director of Operations, which is a load of crap. I found out that the only reason I had to email this character was because they – AmSher stated “that their attorneys had to look over things and put it in writing.” Also during this phone call with Main Street, “I was told that I had to request in writing who was charging me the continued interest and at what rate.” I was refused this information over the phone. After this huge cluster skunk, I try and pay the settlement with AmSher only to be told by the one operator that the amount will not be satisfied nor will it be reported as settled. I explained that I emailed the Director of Operations my request and that it was accepted, but I guess they employ improperly trained staff. And yes, I put them back on their heals because I was trying to do what I agreed to, but I guess email correspondence, even after the attorneys look at it don’t mean a hill of beans. Not sure where to go from here?

          • Michael Bovee says

            Did Main Street Acquisitions confirm they SOLD the debt to AmSher Collection Services, or was the debt simply assigned to AmSher?

            Based on what you have shared, and our discussions on the phone, AmSher cannot be trusted to tie a shoe. No documented agreement for settling means no payment. Period.

            I would like to compile som

            • Laurie says

              My account with Mainstreet Acquisition was assigned to AmSher to collect. Since AmSher has continued the phone calls where I have to say my name twice, then my SS #, then my DOB, then my address before they state who they are, I find them more than unable to tie a shoe. Since I was within the 30 day period since receiving the letter and since they claim to be following the FDCPA Rules on a constant basis, I sent a verification letter which they deny receiving. No surprise there to say the least. Also they insisted on going through the stupid Director of Operations regarding such a letter. So since they have chosen this path, and through my investigation I have found no rules regarding this concept through the FDCPA, I emailed this Director the letter that they claim to have never gotten. Since doing this, I have heard nothing from them. I have it amazing that these collection companies can continually call you and demand you verify your information before they verify who they are and what company they are calling from.

              • Laurie says

                Ok this is getting so frustrating. Called Mainstreet Acquisition to get more information, only to be given to Jason Borkovec, the Director of Operations at AmSher. Needless to say, his nasty tone and his explanation of the interest being charged, “I needed to figure that out,” and which was commencing since February 2009, was surprising especially coming from a collection agency. Even if I did try and make payments on this, after my intial settlement was not accepted, would only cause the amount of the bill to rise. Do I attempt to make payments and only pay what I owe, or is there something else I can do? So beyond frustrated. This is the only company I seem to be having an issue with.

                Also, I’m sorry about the delay in anwering.

                • Michael Bovee says

                  Laurie, Your entire experience with AmSher collections is just odd. Most collection accounts and settlements can be done by each person. There are instances where having someone else step in is worth it. This may be one of those cases. Are you open to having someone else handle this for you?

                  • Laurie says

                    I agree that my experience with this company is very odd. I have been able to work out payments and settlements on my own, but this company is difficult to work with. I would be willing to have someone else handle this, but the only way this will happen if it goes through the Director of Operations. It is my understanding that it had to be done this way so the company attorneys can look and respond to all requests. But, as of this date, AmSher still has not responded to my debt validation letter and I’m still trying to figure out at what percentage they are charging. Thank you in advance.

                    • Mimi says

                      Hi Laurie. I also had the misfortune of speaking with Jason Borkovec, “Director of Operations.” This guy was the most obnoxious, idiotic, ignorant person that I’ve ever had the displeasure of speaking with. All I wanted was a receipt of the payments that I had made to them..I was told by Mr. Director that he couldn’t provide me with that unless he consulted with the company’s attorney and that I should consult my bank statements. Huh? Amsher is probably the most unprofessional company I’ve ever dealt with. Employees come off as being untrained and inept And they never return phone calls.

                      If you can Laurie please see if you can deal with Mainstream directly and have them place you with another agency. That’s what they did for me. And I made sure to let them know about Mr. Director’s unprofessionalism. You should do the same. Good luck to you.

                    • Laurie says

                      OMG, I’m in a pickle now. Tried to talk with Mainstreet Acquisition but got no where of course. Now they have sent me to Frontier Financial Group who is 100 times worse than Amsher. They refuse to say who they are again until you spill all of your information…such as, ss#, dob, address and the like. They are now demanding a payment through my checking account and refuse to take payments through the mail with a certified bank check? Also, they are continually saying that if I don’t pay I will be sued! I’m current enrolled with CareOne and have sent out all the proposals….any help would be appreciated.
                      Thank you!

  17. Natalia says

    Im here because i just found out that i have some medical accounts unpaid showing on my credit report. I recently contacted this company “Online Collections” to try to settle this account. First of all they didnt even have an account for me they coulnt find me by my social security number. So they searched by my name. Then they told me that my balance was $259 but that they could settle this account for $200. I asked the manager that i spoke to if i could get a settlement letter first and he said no. Till this day i dont have an account number with them i have NEVER received a bill from them or anything. So my question is can i trust these people and send them a payment? and wait for that letter afterwards?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Natalia – In a word – no. Without a written letter from them, along with a record from your side showing proof you paid according to the terms of that letter, you could find yourself stuck later. The settlement agreement and proof of payment will allow you to quickly resolve any later collection attempts, and also give you what you need to get any credit reporting corrected if need be. Without a letter you face an uphill and frustrating battle should something occur later on by mistake, or lack of follow through on a the collection agency side.

  18. Kathy says

    Hi Michael,

    Thank you for your informative website. I will definitely review. We have an account that is going on 90 days late through Carecredit. Still calling the number on the Care Credit they offered us a settlement of 900.00 on current 2682.00 and want us to set up a payment through our bank account post dated June 14th. They stated that they could only mail the letter of settlement after talking to them on the phone several times, the latest time for 2 hours.
    Our second care credit account we are trying to settle is a care credit account through Allied Interstate. They seem to be offering the same type of agreement…is this safe?
    Last accounts are through Chase but we haven’t started calling them yet. Any advice for Chase bank?
    We are in Michigan and my husband lost his job in 2011, with no unemployment (he has been working small jobs that pay 1/4 of what he was making and are temporary, with no end in sight)…so we are trying to cut our losses in lieu of having to declare bankruptcy, as we are at the end of our financial limit.

    Thank you for your time and knowledge, this is a valuable resource for consumers.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Kathy – Getting the settlement mailed to you should not be a problem if the payment is set up that far in advance. You would look to get the agreement in the mail prior to the payment pull date. If the letter does not show up, you do not put money in the account a day or two before the payment draft date. Check out this report on how to pay your settlement.

      Settling with Allied Interstate LLC is pretty standard stuff. They do typically send a settlement letter, but depending on who they are collecting for (Care Credit/GE Capital in this case), they will have different ways for how they send it out. Following the set aside account guide I linked to above is much more than simply suggestive when dealing with thrid party debt collectors, debt buyers, and collection attorneys.

      Check out this page about how to settle with Chase. After you review that information post in the comment section on that page with questions for those credit cards. Be sure to share what the balances are with Chase when commenting. It could make a difference in the feedback I have to share.

      • Kathy says

        Hi Michael,

        Thank you for your advice. I (finally) finished the settlements through Care Credit and received the letters without difficulties (and set up a separate bank account). So that is going well.
        I am about to tackle Chase.
        I very much have appreciated and used all of this information.


        • Michael Bovee says

          Awesome Kathy! Thanks for posting updates. I like to know that people are succeeding with their goals and efforts. A larger benefit from you and others keeping these pages updated is that other readers can take a measure of confidence in their own decisions, even if they do not participate in the comments (which are most readers).

          • Kathy says

            Yes, good. I settled with three payments for both of the Care Credit accounts. The settlements were pretty generous, however the fees and interest on those accounts had more than doubled the original amounts, so it kind of balances that out. We’ve been setting aside money to contribute to the settlement offers, as well as receiving help from mother-in-law (with good fortune). I read your website advice thoroughly so I knew what they were talking about and what to discuss at every step. I’ll let you know how it goes with Chase. It is a psychologically difficult thing, but it feels good to complete (and not to declare bankruptcy too–of course, we’re fortunate to have the help from MIL). Thanks again!

  19. Amy says

    I had 3335.00 in a credit card debt to First Bank,,they sold or turned the debt over to CACH, LLC. Sterling Atlantic Law contacted me about the debt and said if I agreed to a settlement of 1,500 they would forgive the debt..I never received a settlement letter in the mail..they said there was no “settlement” until the debt was paid..I agreed to pay 1200 on 5/31 and 300 on 6/14. On 5/31 I couldnt make the payment (due to surgery) and asked that the payment date be switched out two weeks to 1200 on 6/14 and they said they would have to increase the final payment to 634.00 due on 6/28…I paid the 1200. on 6/14…still no settlement letter indicating anything..I called and asked them about it and they said they dont send out settlement letters until the debt is paid in full..I asked them what does “in full mean” because I have nothing in writing as to what we verbally agreed on. Please help me!! I dont know if I should make the final payment on 6/28 when I have nothing in writing

    • Amy says

      and they say that they are not lawyers,,,when I asked for a settlement letter,,they said “the lawyers dont send them out until the debt is paid off and I have to call and request that letter”.

      • Michael Bovee says

        Amy – Unfortunately, I am skeptical of how this will turn out for you without a written agreement to rely on. I have seen too much of what has occurred with you – after the fact – to think otherwise.

        You may want to call and speak with the same rep and record all that you discuss. If this results in them trying to continue to collect, you will want to have something tangible to fall back on that represents the nature of your negotiations. You will be able to escalate their acting in bad faith if need be, but will want something to substantiate your position.

        Please post any update with your scenario. I can assist you with some paths to resolution if it comes to that. Let’s hope it doesn’t.

  20. Ann C says

    I’m trying to negotiate a settlement with Central Finl Control. They’ve agreed to settle a $1580 for $855. They refuse to send me a settlement letter beforehand. They say I can request one after they’ve received my payment. Now they say my payment is due today, June 27, otherwise the offer is rescinded. I also said I would send them a certified check because I was not going to give them my account info. They said I would have to overnight the check to them.
    Should I walk away from this and revisit at another time. I’m very leery of giving them my money without a letter, especially after reading the above question/answer?
    Thank you in advance for your help!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Ann – If I were you, I would walk away. Settling debt, and getting the agreement in writing, is just too common place for them to tell you to request a letter outlining the agreement afterward.

      I found a BBB alert for Central Financial Control that said “According to information in BBB files, this company is no longer in business. If you have an unresolved dispute with this company you may wish to seek legal advice.” You can see the BBB alert here. This may not be the same entity you are dealing with, but the alert is a concern set beside the other issues.

      Who was this debt originally with? How long ago was the past payment you made? What state are you in?

      • Ann C. says

        Thank you for responding. I initially tried sending a certified letter to CFC offering a settlement. I got the address from my credit report. (Ive never received a letter from them). It was returned so did some digging online and also came across that BBB alert. I called Sierra Vista Regional Medical Center where the debt originated and they gave me CFC’s number. I am in California. The debt was reported to CRA in 2010.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Ann – It would be a good idea to call the medical center and verify whether the debt was sold, or if the account was assigned out for collection. My feedback will be different depending on the answer to that.

          • Ann C. says

            I just got off the phone with the medical center’s billing dept. They confirmed the account was sold to CFC. I called CFC again to see if I got a different answer from them, but the agent said it’s company policy not to send out letters before payment. He did say the company will send “random” letters of settlement offers, but not confirmation letters. He said they have no reason to lie to me, back out on the agreement , come after me for more money and put their company at risk for $500 extra.
            I read online that someone wrote on the back of a check something to the effect “this settles my debt with (debt company)” and by said company cashing the check it was in essence an agreement. This person said the collector came after the balance owed months later, but he faxed them a copy of the back of the check and never heard from them again. Would that work?

            • Michael Bovee says

              Ann – I called Central Financial Control. I spoke with a Rep, Tiffany, and a Supervisor, Laura. Both were very pleasant and helpful.

              Ways I would encourage you to proceed:

              Call back and go over the details of your settlement and record the call. You need a new due date. Take care to write down who you spoke with and the date and time of the call as well as the highlights of the conversation. Be sure that you send payment in a manner they must sign for, and that is recorded (USPS Express, Fed Ex), this way you can show receipt. Also, send check with a MEMO note “Payment for our agreed settlement in full”. Similar to the accord and satisfaction you brought up in your above comment.

              • Ann says

                Thank you for your advice and for even going as far as to call CFC. I took your suggestions as to how to proceed.
                Now I’ll wait to see if they close my accounts as promised once they get my settlement payment. Fingers crossed. Thanks again. I’m so glad I found this site!

                • Dave says

                  On the whole, very good advice. I wouldn’t do anything without some sort of letter. One thing that is of concern, however, is writing a statement on the check regarding it settling the debt in full. Although it won’t hurt to do that, it really isn’t a binding agreement. People have been trying that for years, in an attempt to say something (a car, boat, house, credit card, etc.) is paid in full by them cashing the check, when there are many payments left to be made. The courts just won’t uphold that, mainly because it would be giving the debtor the ability to cancel a debt just by writing a phrase on the check, and if the company owed doesn’t agree with the statement, then they don’t get the money. Similar to post-dating a check. You can post-date all you want, but most banks never look at the date on a check. And even if they do, they will still cash it when it is presented. And the courts side with the debt holder and the bank as well.

  21. John T. says

    I was sued by capital one bank, from my Credit card through Michael Scott out of Dallas, they filed in the county courts and the Judgement is pending. I responded as required, and stated I didn’t owe the debt and demanded verification to the lawyer and to the courts to stop any default judgement. Although the lawyer continues to call, and I have never answered any of their calls, the card is old and, was max’d and paid on for over 10 years, hard times have had me unemployed, previously self employed, so no unemployment wages. They filed within 3 years of my not being able to pay.
    I still don’t want a judgement to deal with for personal reasons. I am needing to know how much time will the pending Judgement be good for… or do I need to try to negotiate a settlement…. if so, will attempting to negotiate a settlement over the phone negate my ” I don’t owe the debt ” plea… as I know they record all phone calls in an attempt to collect a debt..

    I am cash broke by the way.. and have been for a long time..

    Thank you Sir for any pearls of wisdom,

    John T.

    • Michael Bovee says

      John – Unless you are in a position to follow through with any negotiated settlement, I would not suggest calling to just feel out your options. How much are you being sued for and how much can you pull together to offer in a settlement?

      As far as how long it could take for the case to progress, it varies. Have you gotten anything from them since you filed an answer besides phone calls?

  22. Michele R says

    Hi Michael,
    AT&T has sent me over to a collection agency and I called them to see if we can work out a settlement as AT&T said they cannot take payments on the account since it is transferred out. A rep (whose name I obtained) said they would settle at xyz amount. I failed to ask if it would remove all negative inquiries, nor did he tell me it was on my credit report already she did indicate it would pay my bill in full. I called the agency again this morning having issues trying to log in and pay (i know bad mistake w/o a written agreement) and another male rep said by settling they will not remove any negative remarks from my account unless they receive the full amount. This didn’t sit right with me. So I said I would think about it. I am trying to draft a letter regarding the settlement terms to send via certified mail. Am I on the right path? I did tell the rep the payment was going to be made today but in light of whats transpired I cannot in good faith make a blind payment without documentation. Any advice/suggestions? I’m afraid they’re going to sell off this debt and again I will have to start up this game again. I called back asking to speak w/the same rep as yesterday but they transfered me to the guy I spoke with this morning. I sense sneaky tactics by this guy.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Michele – Sending letters out that you draft is not usually met with success. You want to get something in writing from them.

      I want to be sure I understand where you are at:

      Is this for a phone bill?
      Who is the agency collecting?
      Are you more focused on your credit report, or saving money in the settlement?

      Nothing you have shared so far suggests to me any thing sneaky.

      • Michelle R says

        Yes it is for a phone bill. I don’t want it ony credit report n I’ve had/am having major medical issues so if I can do both (reduce n remove) it would be great. I called back to get the rep I spoke with to send me something in writing n she was not available nor did she call back. How do I get them to send me something in writing as I’ve read that it’s a fat chance it’ll happen

        • Michael Bovee says

          Michelle – Reduce and remove is not generally an option. With utilities, like a phone bill, there are instances where you can get the company to remove for full payment.

          If you go for the settlement rather than removal, getting that documentation is more standard than not. If you are holding out for a letter that states clearly your payment is in return for the credit report entry removal, that is where the fat chance comes in.

  23. Geneva says

    I have two questions and I would greatly appreciate your help.

    1. Is a settlement offer and settlement agreement the same ?

    2. If a collection agency faxed me a settlement offer which met all of the requirements perfectly and then 3 days later said it was sent in error that the actual creditor did not authorize the settlement agreement and as a result they want to rescind the offer-can I continue to meet the payments that are set out in the letter and pay the settlement amount ? I did send a check (after they verbally told me they would send me written notification of their intentions to rescind) they said they would return the check to me. I believe as long as I perform under the terms of the agreement that there is a valid contract in spite of their attempt to rescind their offer.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Geneva – There may be an argument you can make in court for them honoring the previous written settlement offer and agreement. But you would have to file the action which has its costs. You would want an experienced attorney in order to increase your odds of succeeding. In the end, you may not succeed and have spent money in the process.

      Can you provide some more details about what took place?

      Who is the debt collection agency?
      Who are they collecting for?
      What was the balance owed, and what was the settlement offer and terms?

      If I know the answers to those questions I would be better able to help you.

      • Geneva says

        Thank you for responding,
        Northstar for Mercedes Benz balance of $3333.59 settlement for $2,666.88 to be paid in 3 payments of $888.96 on 9/19 -10/19 -11/19. I have sent the first payment all ready check by mail certified.

        Initially I contacted them we discussed the account and came to a verbal agreement which is stated above in mid July. The following day I attempted to submit a payment they said they would not go through with the deal so I did not send a payment. In early August I contacted them again with the same terms and this time they faxed me a settlement letter stating the above terms in addition to all other information that is necessary for a settlement agreement (account number etc). That was on August 5th on August 9th they telephoned me and stated they would rescind the settlement agreement because Mercedes did not authorize it. I told them we have a written agreement all ready in place and I posted a payment (by mail that same day) they responded by telling me they would send the check back. Yesterday the 11th I received by mail a letter from Northstar stating that the settlement agreement was sent out in error and that the offer is now null and void. In addition they stated if I do not respond to the letter within 30 days they will return the account to my creditor (Mercedes Benz) and their file will be closed and I will have to respond to the creditor.

        What are any possible concerns I should have at this point. My intentions are to follow through with the last 2 payments under the settlement agreement and then request the title of the car. Also I am in Florida.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Geneva – I would suggest you speak with a consumer law attorney with a practice that focuses on collection issues before proceeding with any payment, or any other strategy. If you would like for me to help you located on near you, send an email reply to this comment notification and I will send back contact info.

  24. Liz m says

    have u heard of a monarch and associates??? they’ve called a few times threading me with court papers. never once have I heard from them until a few days ago when they called my mom. I’ve googled the name and came up with nothing. after serveal more calls I was afraid and ended up paying settling the debt at a lower price. before hanging up the phone he told me I will get a email with the settlement offer paid in full and the two receipts that needed to be signed and sent back. After hanging up the phone it dawned on me that I never had to that before so now I feel like I was a victim of a scam or was I not. In the letter they are address is in norco California. I’ve already called both my banks and notified them of this, I’m just not 100% sure this company is real or not

    • Michael Bovee says

      Liz – Couple things – You say Monarch and Associates has called a few times and threatened you with court papers. You then say you never heard from them before until a couple of days ago when they called your mom. I want to be sure I am reading your comment correctly. I read it as – in the span of a couple days your mother was called, then you were called and threatened with a law suit, it stressed you to the point that you agreed to a settlement. You are waiting for an email and are supposed to sign two receipts and send those back.

      I am glad you cancelled any payments and alerted your bank. I would like to see the email they send with the receipts. If you are up to it, I will review those, and the company, with your help. We can connect on this off line. Just post a follow up reply to this comment string and let me know you are good with connecting via email and on the phone and we can go from there.

  25. Jerry says

    Hey Michael if the debt settlement letter I received shows an extra “$” before the settlement amount, is it okay to pay or should I request a new letter?

    Example: “…..we have agreed with you to accept $$3200.00 as settlement in full…..”

    I just want to make sure there’s no hidden “we gotcha” if an issue ever arises. It’s paying a $6k debt.

      • Jerry says

        Thanks Michael.

        Another question. I forgot to write “settlement in full” on cashiers check. Is this bad? I did keep copies of the check and of course the settlement letter.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Jerry – The letter outlining the settlement terms etc., and proof of payment being made within the agreed time is all you need. Placing settlement in full in the memo of the check is not necessary.

  26. Eva says

    Hi Michael,
    Was wondering if you could help me. We settled a whole bunch of debts we had through NDR. We were supposed to be in the clear, but I just recieved a letter from Gordon and Weinberg telling me that my Exxon/Mobil is not settled. The settlement was through another company called Prime Source Capital Management. I called G&W and they have record of a payment being made that was to be the settlement but someone processed it as a payment. I do not have a settlement letter as it was sent to NDR. Whom I contacted a thousand times to get the letter. Now they are out of business and PSCM isn’t returning my phone calls. Is there anything I can do? They see that a payment was made, I have my bank statement. I just wanna cry at this point. Thank You in advance for any advice you may have to offer.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Eva – Is the NDR you are referring to National Debt Relief? If not, who is NDR? Who was the payment processor for your settlements – someone like global client solutions?

      I can help you, but need to know who was involved along the way before offering up what to do next.

  27. Eva says

    Hi Michael,
    Sorry about that NDR is National Debt Resolutions. They were the the agency we used. The payment was processed through Prime Source Capital Management. The amount that was left after settlement is now with Gordon and Weinburg. When I spoke with G & W the associate informed me that they have the $ 1, 500 on record but it was put in as a payment not a settlement. I’m sorry about all the confusion, I so upset over all this. Thank you for getting back to me.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Thanks for the additional details Eva. Prime Source Capital is a debt collector. Did National Debt Resolution have you set up with an escrow account through someplace like Global Client Solutions, or NoteWorld (now Meracord)? If so, can you still log into your escrow account on line?

      Try not to stress over this. It is unfortunate you do not have the written agreement or settlement letter. It would make resolving this simpler. But you can get through this all the same.

      Do you happen to have any email communication saved from National Debt Resolutions about the account? Anything identifying the date they said they had reached the agreement with Prime Source? How about the date of payment remittance for the settlement?

  28. Eva says

    Hi Michael,
    We had set up a seperate bank account with our personal bank. So I have access to the account and can see that a $1, 500 payment was made to Prime Source on April 26th. G&W also has this information because when I was talking with them they told me they saw the payment to Prime was processed on April 25th. So they know the money went to a debt collector but was a clerical error when processed. As far as emails go the only email I have from NDR is a spreed sheet from them saying Exxon was settled. Thanks for the words of encouragement and all your help.

    • Eva says

      I forgot to add that G&W told me without the letter stating that the account was settled there was nothing they could do, except offer me a settlement of $1,200 on the $1,600 that is left on the account.

      • Michael Bovee says

        Okay. I was hoping you would be able to identify dates for when National Debt Resolution had struck the deal with Prime Source Capital.

        First, I want to state the obvious (more for later readers of this page than anything else): You absolutely want some form of documentation when settling a debt. Whether you are negotiating settlement agreements on your own, or hire someone else to do that for you. There are one off scenarios where you can record a phone call, or even be meticulous with notes of what was said, when, and by whom. But the best way to insure that you can overcome a mistake like has happened with Prime Source Capital, is to get everything in writing. With that out of the way, here is my first suggestion:

        Put together a complete chronology of events surrounding this account, and include everyone involved. Full names of companies, people you talked with at NDR, dates, and who you have talked with at Prime Source and Gordon and Weinberg. Once you have all of your notes put together, I want you to file a complaint with the CFPB here: Once on that page click on “debt collection” and start filling in all of the fields using your notes as a reference. You are basically filing a complaint about collection continuing after the debt was resolved. Prime Source Capital Management will have some record of what transpired with National Debt Resolution, either an email exchange, letter, or record of a phone call that took place (perhaps even a recording of any phone call). They will also have a record of any past transactions with your debt settlement company, which once reviewed would likely show no pattern of simple payment arrangements, but a consistent pattern of settlements, which would make it fairly safe to assume that is what occurred with you.

        Once you file the complaint against both Prime Source, and Gordon and Weinberg, you should be able to check on the status, and can expect some type of correspondence with in a few weeks.

        I would encourage you to do this as soon as you can. Please post updates in this comment string with your experience and results.

  29. Eva says

    Thank You so much Michael!!! I will do exactly as you said , and keep you updated on what transpires.
    I really thought I had no hope left at all but to pay it all over again.
    Again Thank You sooo much!!

  30. Eva says

    Hi Michael,
    I just wanted to update you on today’s events. I did as you said and filed a complaint. This is what I received
    : We reviewed your complaint, but the company you complain about is not yet registered in our system. We are actively trying to register the company you identified so we can process your complaint. We will let you know when we are able to forward your complaint to the company.

    In the meantime:

    – We’ve sent a copy of your complaint to the Federal Trade Commission, where they’ve included it in a database for state and federal law enforcement agencies.

    – You may contact your state and local consumer protection offices about the issues raised in your complaint. Call 311 or your local directory assistance to find your local resources.

    – You may contact the company about this matter directly.

    – You may get help from a private attorney, your local legal services office, or file your own case in court. Certain laws may limit the time period in which you can file. If you need free advice from an attorney, you can contact legal aid organizations for a referral. Visit to find legal aid in your area.

    Please keep in mind that, the CFPB cannot represent individuals in legal matters, and that this letter is not meant to say whether or not your complaint is valid.

    I also did a lot of digging yesterday to try to find a number for Prime Source because the number they have listed said the account is locked. Whatever that means. So I went on and found FR Holdings who used to deal with Prime Source. I called and left a message for a very nice gentleman who called me back this morning and said that a settlement was emailed to NDR back in April, but he would call Prime Source for me and have the letter emailed to me this afternoon. Keeping my fingers crossed that I do receive this letter. You have been a huge help to me and I appreciate your time and energy getting back to me. I will keep you updated on the progress of both of these events.
    Thank You again,

    • Michael Bovee says

      Thanks Eva, and please do post updates about your situation.

      It is interesting that Prime Source has not registered and assigned someone to monitor the CFPB complaint portal. This year brought the most significant changes to the debt collection industry since 1977, and the CFPB is a huge part of that. I suspect there is more change to come. Why Prime Source would not be at the top of their game right now with registration is, at least to me, a caution for others dealing with them.

  31. MelissaD says

    Hi Michael:
    Just found your website today. Read your above advice about settlement letters and agreements. I also read through most of the comments to get a feel for other peoples situations. I unfortunately still feel as though I do not totally understand. So I have two accounts I would like to pay in full. One is with Crd Prt Assoc, and the other is with Financial Credit Network. Step one, I call and state that I will be paying the accounts in full and will need an agreement or settlement letter? Here is where (I believe) I am lost.I will ask the company to send me this letter prior to giving them any money? Does the letter stipulate that once payment is received X will take place?! I plan on calling tomorrow, if not Monday to begin this process, really looking forward to your thoughts. Thank you in advance for all your information.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Melissa – If you are paying in full, the concerns about debt settlement wording in the letter is not an issue. You are not calling to negotiate any balance reduction or payment terms, so just requesting a payoff letter would be fine.

      What else you may be looking for in the pay off letter as far as “X” taking place may be something like “Once payment is received, we will update our information with the credit reporting bureaus to show paid in full”, or something similar.

      What were these collection accounts originally? How old are the debts?

      • MelissaD says

        Thank you again for every minute of your time. One of the collections is medical and one is a untility company in California. I moved and didnt provide them with a forwarding address thus causing it to snowball out of control. The medical account is about 2 years old, the utility is say 4 years old. I fear making these large payments and simply getting no letter, I didnt realize it was common to ask for the letter prior to payment. Do I just state I would like the letter and then you can take your money from said account? I was told I will need to contact the bureaus myself with the letter as they do not haggle with this. I just cant express how uneasy I am. I truly dont want to send $1,000 and simply be in the same position. The reps at both companies have already been impossible to tolerate and all I was asking is total amount due. Is it normal to feel like this is a trap? I need those letters.


        • Michael Bovee says

          Melissa – It is fairly common to feel as if you are being trapped by debt collectors, even when you are simply trying to pay off the bill. It is a bit counter intuitive that debt collectors will make it difficult to pay them, but many of them to develop a gruffness to their job that spills over to the successful files they work.

          If you run into trouble getting the pay off letters post an update here. I can assist you further.

  32. MelissaD says

    Michael, thank you for assuring me others have felt this way. If I proceed and pay both in full and fail to get the letters, there is a next step? Maybe a back up plan? That would really help me feel a lot better. You couldnt be more correct… random you would want to be difficult to work with. Im offering the entire dollar amount, I just want to be able to update my credit report to reflect such! Is there a forum for other questions (dispute letters, credit repair, etc)?! This has been wonderful.
    Thanks again!

    • Michael Bovee says

      The next step after paying the debts would be to wait about 30 to 60 days and then check your credit report to see that any reporting has been updated to show the accounts as paid. If you needed something to happen quicker because you are trying to get a home loan or something like that, you could take some steps to expedite that, and would certainly want the payoff/settlement letter for each account.

      If the accounts are not update on your credit reports properly after a reasonable time, you would then dispute that information with the agencies reporting and the bureaus. I can help you through that process here on the site. I have not fully published the credit reporting section with all of the guides and material, but those may be up by the time you need the info. Otherwise, I will point you to the most relevant pages if this indeed comes up.

      Question: Do you have any recent collection notices from Credit Protection Association or Financial Credit Network? If so, when did you receive the most recent letters?

  33. MelissaD says

    Michael – Wonderful, I have done most of the leg work cleaning up my credit. There wasnt much to work on as most of our “financial life” was in my husbands name. Anyhow long story short I need to clean up his, that is where the serious work is going to be. I need to get him to a 640 so I have to get about 100 points. The issues I am bringing fourth here today are solely the small things that are hang ups in my name.
    I dont have anything recent from either of them, didnt even know I knew either of them money. Pulled my credit to see where I stand in the world, and found out I owed both places. Made a phone call to each asking status, total amount due and original company trying to collect. Both places were untolerable. It was surreal.
    I hear its a good idea ( in the clean up process) to dispute everything you can on your report, and then go from there. Do you give advice on the best steps in the clean up process?


    • Michael Bovee says

      Melissa – Disputing all negatives on your credit report can lead to additional hurdles that are not necessary. I am not a fan of blanket disputes.

      I do offer feedback on credit reporting for the DIY-er. Lets start a page on the topic together. You can use the Ask Michael feature here to start a page.

      Fill in as much detail about your credit goals, credit needs, and the negatives on your husbands report in the situation/background section. Pose a condensed set of questions and submit. I will get the alert and respond with feedback and likely additional questions (but tomorrow). We can correspond on that page through the comments and work through to your achieving your goals. Sound good?

      • Harper says

        Michael, this is such great advice. I have a question for you. I am in basically the same situation as MelissaD. I have a utility bill on my credit report for less than $300 that’s about 3-4 years old. I want to pay off the debt in full, but I can’t get ANYTHING in writing from the debt collectors (Robinson, Reagan, & Young). They told me to send a check for the full amount and they “promise” to send me a receipt/paid in full letter afterwards. But I don’t trust them to do this. My husband and I are trying to get a mortgage loan and this utility bill has been a major obstacle for us.

        So my question is, how do I get a payoff letter from them prior to payment? If I can’t get this, is it really safe to send them the payment with nothing in writing?

        I am contacting Robinson, Reagan, and Young of my own accord. They have not tried to collect this debt from me in years and seem to have no interest in doing anything to help move this process along.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Harper – If you record the phone call, even let them know that you are, identify the collector, the company, your account number, the payment arrangements being made etc., you can move forward without the letter. But I would rather you get the letter.

          If you are paying the bill in full, the loan officer or mortgage broker you are working with may be able to help you with this. Tell him/her about the situation and ask them to send Robinson Reagan and Young a written demand request, then follow up with payment on that once the loan officer receives it.

          If you run into any trouble from here, post an update to this comment string and I can help you further.

          • Harper says

            Thank you very much! I will be sure to discuss this at our next meeting with the loan officer. I will also be sure to record any further phone conversations that may occur between myself and the collector. Thanks again!

  34. MelissaD says

    Michael – Super excited! Thank you again for everything! Ill work on my questions tonight, and post first thing tomorrow!

  35. Paul says

    Hi Michael,

    I recieced a settlement letter recently but they spelled my city name and entered an incorrect zip code on the settlement letter. Luckily it still arrived at my address but I’m wondering if I should request another letter? All other important requirents are met on the letter. What do you think?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Paul – Does the settlement letter identify you and the debt correctly? I sincerely doubt you would have a problem using the letter to back up the fact that you resolved the debt. You can certainly call in to suggest you are willing to accept the offer, but only if the letter is corrected.

  36. Anna says

    Hi Michael,
    I just made a settlement for my BofA credit card debt with the debt collector about 40 min ago, I owed $11.400 and they accepted a lump sum of $2000. I asked them to send me a letter with all the agreements also stating that the debt is paid in full and that they will not resell the debt. This debt collector is collecting for the owner of the debt which is no longer BofA. They agreed on sending the letter and will send it via email, will that be a valid document? Also, they are requesting my bank account number to collect the lump sum on the date we will agree on. I told them that I don’t feel comfortable giving them my acc # and if instead I could send them the money in a different way liie a money order or cashier check. They said they will only accept the acc#. I definitely don’t want to give them any of my bank information. I thought that perhaps I could buy a prepaid card but not sure if they will accept it. I’m still waiting for their email, I haven’t received it yet. Please give me your advise. Thanks

    • Michael Bovee says

      Anna – If the emailed settlement letter comes in the form of an attached document on their letterhead, and it meets all of the requirements, that should not pose any problems. Just be sure to print a copy and keep in a safe place. If the agreement comes in the form of an email message (in the body and nothing attached), I personally would not accept that.

      As far as paying, it is fairly common to pay over the phone with your checking account info. It is less and less of a concern to do that, and hold tight to sending a certified check. I do recommend you use a separate account for funding settlements. You can set the account up at the same bank you have now. Takes about 20 minutes. If you have the time to do that before the payment date you agreed to, read this report:

      If I knew the debt buyer, and the debt collector names, I would be able to offer more about either by way of experience.

  37. Anna says

    Thanks Michael, I’ll go ahead an try to open a separate account for this. The debt buyer is Cavalry Portfolio Services, LLC and the debt Collector is Vision Financial. Do you know them?

    • Michael Bovee says

      I do, and I would suggest going with the separate account for your payment on the settlement. If you would like me to review the settlement letter with you, I can do that. No charge. Just email me if you want to connect on that after you get it. Just reply to the same email you get these comment notifications from.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Anna – I reviewed the settlement letter from Vision Financial Collection Services and Cavalry SPV. It’s a solid and standard letter that I would be comfortable with. With a week to pay, you can set up the additional account at your local bank branch tomorrow and call in your payment in plenty of time.

      Great work!

  38. Amma says

    Hi Michael,
    Thank you so much for sharing so much invaluable advice.

    I am currently being sued by Portfolio Recovery Associates for the amount of $21,000. I called them to negotiate a settlement. After a couple phone conversations we agreed at a settlement of $10,800. I asked them to send me a settlement letter first, but they told me the will not send a letter until after the have received my electronic banking information. After reading through a lot of your articles and comments, I know I should not make any payments until I get something in writing. Please advise me on what I should do at this point. I have an separate account set up with the funds ready to pay them, but I don’t want to until I receive the letter. I have to respond to the summons by Oct. 20th.

    I am also in negotiations with Wells Fargo and have come to a verbal settlement agreement and they also won’t send me a settlement letter until they have payment information.

    FYI – I have recorded all my calls.

    Please help!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Amma – You are in good shape with the recordings. Starting a couple years ago, it became a bit more common for original creditors like Wells Fargo and Chase to want to get the payment information and dates set up in their system before releasing the settlement letter or written agreement. This is why I often recommend setting the first or only payment toward the settlement to a date a week or so from when you negotiate the arrangement. This allows time to get the letter via mail, or faxed to you (which can take a couple days for internal systems). The fact that you are using a different account to fund these is another layer of protection, because you simply would not place the amount you are settling for in the account if you do not have documentation in hand prior to the payment date. And this is especially important with the Portfolio Recovery Associates settlement. PRA got weird with their settlement letter policies in the beginning of 2011, and they still can be. The fact that you are settling a lawsuit with PRA means you are likely dealing with a deb collection attorney, and perhaps not with PRA directly. Is that the case? If so, your recordings are even more important. While I do have a measure of trust in PRA doing things right, or correcting an error in processing a settlement if one were to occur, I have little faith in most debt collection law firms.

      • Amma says

        I believe I’ve been dealing with PRA directly. Every time I call I get a PRA rep. They do remind me from time to time that they have already filed a lawsuit. So if I have just the amount needed to fund the settlement in the account I give them and set up a withdrawal date for a couple weeks out, I should be okay?

        • Michael Bovee says

          You have the call recordings, and would be setting up the payment for a date several days out to allow for the agreement to be faxed or mailed. If the agreement does not show up within 48 hours of the payment pull date, you could call and let them know that you set up the payment arrangement with the understanding that a letter would be forthcoming, but you have not received it. This means you will not be able to fund the settlement if it is not faxed over to you right away.

          Because you are being sued by them, it is always a good idea to talk with your own attorney about this type of thing. And one with debt collection defense experience would be best. I can help you locate one if you need. That said, you do want any documentation to reference the fact that they will drop any suit. If they balk at this for any reason, post an update here and be precise with what was said.

          Portfolio Recovery is as hyper aware of complaints and working those out quicker and more fairly than in years past due to recent regulatory realities. If anything goes south, please post an update and I will help you from there – no charge.

          • Amma says

            So I finally did receive a letter from PRA before I had to give them my electronic payment information. My concern is that it does not address anything about them dropping the lawsuit.

            Here is what the letter states:
            “Your account was purchased on 12/18/2012 from FIA card Services, N.A. This letter confirms your arrangement made on 9/23/2013 to make the following payment(s) to settle this account.

            Payment in the amount of $10,800 is due by 10/25/2013.

            Should you miss any of the payments described herein, this payment plan may become null and void.

            If you complete this payment plan and our company is reporting our company’s trade line for this account to the three major credit reporting agencies, our company will report this account as settled.

            If you have any questions, please call our office toll free (866) 428-8102. Our operations are 8am-9pm Mon, Tue, Thu, and Friday.


            We are not obligated to renew this offer.”

            Should I pay even though is doesn’t say anything about dropping the lawsuit? I have to respond to the summons by Oct. 20th.

            • Michael Bovee says

              Amma – The settlement letter and proof of payment would protect you from any additional collection action. And I would pay it before the summons response deadline. You can and should call and confirm that they will file a motion to dismiss the suit, but this settlement implies same. You could file a motion of your own after taking advantage of the settlement offer if they failed to.

              In the past I would have advised some extra caution (and still will with certain debt collectors). Today we have the CFPB paying very close attention to collection companies like Portfolio Recovery Associates. PRA probably has a staff member assigned to the CFPB complaint portal. Any complaint you were to file with the CFPB would be escalated to what I would call a smart set of eyeballs at Portfolio Recovery.

              If you do run into trouble please post a comment here and we can go from there.

              You do, of course, have the option of requesting a new settlement agreement from PRA that includes reference to the dismissal they will file.

  39. Chris Mathews says

    I just settled with the second lien holder of our foreclosed property last week. I received the settlement agreement (SA) and already paid the settled amount. My challenge is that the collection agency is giving me a hard time on how it will be recorded with the service bureaus (SB). In the SA, it states that it will be recored as “settled in full.” However, they are stating via email that it’s going to be reported as “settled for less.” My questions are two folds.

    1. Is wording recorded to the SB better for our credit if “settled in full” is used compared to “settled for less?”
    2. What is my recourse if they decide to not perform what is stated in the SA?

    Thank you.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Chris – I do have some feedback to offer, but before I do, I want to get clarity on your use of the term Service Bureau. Are you referring to credit reporting agencies when using that term, or the loan servicer?

  40. Perliza says

    Hi Michael ,
    Having found your site gave us new hope, I have a question, I have bills on my credit report from different collection agency and we really want to settle it, pay off all our bad debts starting with mine, so we can start building up our credit rating and score. Started calling them last week we have ready funds to pay off al my bad debt but I asked them to send me a letter or a receipt first stating that I have paid the amount that we have agreed( settlement letter) before I send the payment in cashiers check or Money order for my protection and record. But they refused they want my checking acc#. Or my debit/credit card then they will mail the settlement letter after payment is done. My husband had a bad experienced 3 years ago when he paid a collection agency by phone with a personal check, it was not reflected to his debt us paid instead it was sold to another agency. We don’t want to make the same mistake again. I don’t owe them much ($3000 more or less) We just want to clear my debt first then my husband next.
    What would you recommend us to do?

  41. Les says

    Hi Michael,

    I received a call earlier tonight from a Bank of America credit card that I thought was settled. They told me I was late on my payments. I had a balance of $11,383.68 in July that I made an agreement over the phone to pay $8987 by a certain date to settle the account. I was lent the money from a family member and made the payment. They are saying that because I didn’t call to state that the payment was for settlement that it was processed as a payment and I still owe the balance. Unfortunately, I did not get anything in writing. The balance as of today is stated as $2497.65. Do I have any options? I am currently living paycheck to paycheck and struggling to pay my current bills as is.


    • Michael Bovee says

      Les – I would encourage you to file a complaint about this with the CFPB. Go to this page: Click on credit card, and follow through with each field. Provide as much detail regarding all of your calls leading up to and when you settled. It would be good to put the chronology of what happened on paper first, and then use your notes to complete the complaint process. Be as specific with dates and names of people involved that you can, and where appropriate.

      Response time on these types of complaints are fairly quick, but can take a couple weeks. Post an update to this comment string with what happens and lets go from there in needed.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Quick question: Was the settlement completed directly with Bank of America, or was it completed with a collection agency? If a debt collector, who?

      • Les says

        Thanks for your quick reply. Yes, the settlement was directly with Bank of America. I will update to let you know how I make out.

      • Les says

        Great news! I filed the complaint and Bank of America agreed to the initial settlement. I got a letter in the mail from them the other day saying that the account is settled. Thanks for your help!

        • Michael Bovee says

          Awesome! Glad that worked out for you. If you do not mind, would you post a follow up comment and briefly describe your experience with the CFPB complaint portal? It would help others get a feel for that process, and its effectiveness.

  42. Mark says

    Hello Micheal,
    I have a few questions for you and hope that you can help me out. I am in the process of cleaning up my credit report and have been doing so for about six months (my credit was totally messed up). I have disputed items and some where deleted and some were verified. I am now at the point where I am ready to negotiate debts from collection agencies. I have 4 all together that i am ready to tackle. LVNV Funding for $1650, Main Street Acquistion for $7,903, National Credit Systems $6,432, and Portfolio Recovery for $1547. My questions are 1. What is a good percentage to shoot for when negotiating debt? 2. Are there any negative effects to paying off old collection debts (will they be able to sue me for the remaining balance if i pay or could it effect my credit score in a negative way)? 3. What is the difference between paid in full and settled in full as far as credit reporting goes and does it make a difference? I also want to mention that these are very old debts and the statue of limitations have already expired on all of them, in fact they are due to drop off my credit file within the next 2 to 3 years.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Mark – My answers are numbered below.

      1. If you are able to pay the settlement you negotiate in a single payment, I would target all of the debt collectors you listed at 50% or less. The worse you look on paper to them as able to pay (credit report shot etc), the more I would target lower than 50%. If you need to negotiate your agreements to be paid over time you could pay a premium for that. Need many months to pay? settle for sometimes 60%.

      2. No, they cannot sue you for the uncollected portion. Mistakes in how your settled debts are tagged in a debt collectors system (even original creditors are fallible), do happen, but not that often. Your settlement letter, or written agreement, along with proof that you paid the amounts agreed to, and on time, will assist in correcting any later errors, should they occur.

      3. Now that you are dealing with debt buyers, the credit damage is done. There is no meaningful difference if they report the settlement as paid in full, settled in full, or settled for less. There are some one off situations where a lender will manually underwrite a loan product and seem to care about whether collections were paid in full or satisfied for less, but I see that so seldom nowadays compared to 10 or 15 years ago. This is not something to get hung up on in my opinion.

      There are very real economic and credit benefits to settling debts this old. If paying these settlement meant saving half a point on a mortgage would be a good example.

      • Mark says

        Thanks for the rapid response and I will take everything thing that you said and all the information listed in this thread into consideration. I have about $5400 saved up for paying off collections debts. My next step is to put that money in a special bank account and get own the phone and get to negotiating. I will get any settlement agreement in writing before i make those funds available to the collectors. Is there anything else that i need to be cautious of before i proceed? Once again thank you for all that you are doing to help. This thread was extremely informative, i actually learned quite a bit from just scrolling down the thread and reading your posts.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Mark – As you work through your negotiations and settlement with each debt collector, post additional comments and questions. You can use the search feature in the upper right to find current pages that discuss each one of the debt collectors you are dealing with. Each page will have additional information and comment feedback from other people, which are great to learn from too.

          One caution when negotiating with debt collectors is to never offer too much information. Just stick to the fact that your finances have been, and continue to be, a struggle. You really have limited resources to try and put this behind you. If you get stuck on one account, move on to resolving the others and circle back. In fact, it is sometimes a good idea to play one account off of the other. Something like – “I have 1k to settle an account with. LVNV is another debt collector I am dealing with and will be calling them next. If you cannot help me with this Portfolio Recovery account, I will move on to the next debt collector” – or something similar. You are pretty much in the drivers seat with debts outside of the SOL.

  43. Judy says

    Hi Michael, in March of 2013 I was being hounded by a Debt Collector, called Apex Recovery holdings. They had all my personal information as well as the information for this payday loan I had taken out over the internet. They were threatening me telling me I was going to be arrested, taken to court, they were going to call my employer and tell them I committed fraud. They told me the original debtor would settle for $1700. i asked him for something in writing from their company. He e-mailed me the information, so I made a payment plan of $175 per pay. The last payment was in Aug. 2013. They told me they would send me a letter showing the debt was paid in full, I call there all the time and they tell me they would e-mail me, but to date I have nothing to show debt was paid. On my credit report and with the original debtor the debt is still showing open. What do I do? How do I know that I gave money to a debt collector and I wasn’t scammed. I try to google the phone number but the company doesn’t come up.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Judy – I do have real concerns for whether you were a victim of a debt collection scam. Legitimate debt collectors do no threaten you with arrest. I would like to talk to you about your situation first,and then recommend some state and federal regulators for you to contact. If you are up to speaking with me, post a comment and confirm. I will email you my contact info.

      • Judy says

        Hi Michael,
        Thanks for responding. I have yet to receive a paid in full letter. He said I would have one emailed and mailed to me. This collector was from area code 716. Now that I paid this off I am getting calls from someone claiming to be from a lawyers office telling me that I owe this debt. I closed my checking account in the meantime. But 1700 is a lot of money to me. I just got another email from acs stating they are going to have me prosecuted for a list of reasons. I have outstanding payday loans as I got stuck in this cycle it was costing me more than 800 per pay. I got myself in a big situation. This other company is giving me a different name but is also from 716 area code. He even had someone calla me and tell me he was from my county and he was a process server and I better call the to settle the matter. I tried googling the number but nothing comes up.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Judy – I would like to help you connect some dots. It would be best to connect off line, and we can follow that up with posts to this comment string, or I may start a new page in order to best warn others from what, at least right now, I consider a scam.

          I sent you an email. I hope we can coordinate a time to talk. My direct number is in the sig line of my email.

  44. HW says

    I have been communicating with Stern & Associates PA out of Greensboro, NC (I live in VA) about a $220.00 debt. The gentleman that I spoke with offered a settlement over the phone which I would love to do and get it over with but he refuses to send me something in writing. I’m not comfortable with this and not sure where I should go from here.

    • Michael Bovee says

      An alternative to the written agreement to settle would be to record the call where you cover all the details. Be sure to let them know you are recording the call and why. Keep good notes of date and time, who you spoke with, the number called etc.

      Stern and Associates is an established collection firm. They would have many a letter template to use for settlement agreements. It is just silly not to provide one. You could, of course, stick to your guns and not proceed until you have a letter.

  45. Joey says

    Hey Michael,

    I negotiated a settlement with a local attorney who’s collecting credit card debt for a credit union. The letter matches with your suggested criteria but I’m a little worried about the settlement sentence. The phrase reads:

    “We agreed to settle the claim for $4,200”

    I guess I would prefer to see “settlement in full”, “settlement of the account” or something similar but I wanted your take on the issue or whether I’m just being silly. What do you think?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Joey – That verbiage is still synonymous with your needs. and would help you correct any issues later, should they occur. Attorneys have a habit of using certain terms. Question though – were you sued?

      Covering your back side in a collection event is NEVER silly!

      • Joey says

        Hi Michael,

        No, I was never served and/or sued. I’m assuming they used the same template letter they would in that circumstance.

  46. Gwen S. Stubbs says

    Hi Michael,

    I recently settled a debt and received in the mail as promised, a letter indicating such so I may send it to the 3 credit bureaus. Obviously I don’t necessarily want to ‘contest’ the debt; my intent is to update the ‘status’ if you will. What are your suggestions on facilitating this? My concern is having to make several attempts and requests to get this done.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Gwen – I do have feedback about sending your settlement letter and other doc’s to the credit reporting bureaus, but a couple questions first:

      Who did you reach your settlement with (original creditor, collection agency, debt buyer)?
      How did you pay the negotiated agreement? Is the settlement fully paid (not a series of payments over several months)?
      What do you mean by “recently settled”? Was this completed in the last 30 to 60 days?

      Post a comment update with answers and I can offer a better detailed response.

      • Gwen S. Stubbs says

        Hi Michael,

        I settled the debt with Dynia & Associates, LLC which upon information and belief is a debt collector. The original creditor was Juniper and current creditor, Jefferson Capital. I paid via check by phone in one payment. The original debt was around $1,275 and after negotiating with Dynia, the final payment arrangement was $550.00. The one lump sum payment transaction occurred on July 30, 2013. I didn’t receive their letter in the allotted time and once contacted they then sent the letter which is dated September 12, 2013.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Thanks Gwen. I generally suggest waiting 60 days from the date a settlement is made and paid before sending letters to the credit reporting agencies to update accounts as paid and zero balance. If you are in the middle of a refinance or home loan approval you could be proactive earlier. It sounds to me like your file in there system did not get updated until you received the settlement letter, so you could wait a couple more weeks, or send your letters to the credit reporting agencies now.

          Sending a letter to correct your credit report could be as simple as:

          “I am writing to inform you that you are reporting inaccurate and incomplete information. I have included a copy of your credit report with the inaccurate item at issue highlighted, along with a copy of the written agreement with the named creditor and proof of payment. This account has been paid. The creditor has failed to provide you with this new information, or you have not taken care to update your files appropriately. Please fix your records and send me a copy of the corrected report.”

          You would also want to send a copy of the letter to Jefferson Capital (I am assuming that is who is showing on your credit report).

          The responsibility to investigate and update their records is on the credit reporting companies. You do not have to send a copy of the settlement letter from Dynia/Jefferson Capital, or proof of payment. But your concern about expediting the correction is often better served by sending in supporting documents.

          • Gwen S. Stubbs says

            Hi Michael,
            Thank you for your quick responses… I can’t keep up with you  Jefferson Capital is not on my credit report; however, that is not to say they are not on there now. The last report I purchased which was a 3-in-1 report was April 24, 2013. By way of further background and information, since May I have settled many debts by way of paying in full or settling with some of my other creditors. Those creditors by routine, excluding Jefferson Capital, would contact and report to the 3 credit bureaus within 30 days of the date of our transaction. Additionally, they also each sent me within 7 – 10 days their standard letter in the mail stating same. Essentially, I am doing the legwork for Jefferson Capital. Additionally, I have a personal statement on my report from years ago I want to remove. Can I ask in the same letter to remove that statement? Per your previous response, you suggest to wait a couple months to send letters to the bureaus. Since Jefferson Capital is not showing on my credit reports, I can only assume I have to purchase my reports again? On the other hand, can I use the 3-in-1 report I have now to contest other settled debt… then the bureaus will in turn send me a new one for review… then I can review if Jefferson Capital appears on it? Hope this makes sense.
            Thank you!

            • Michael Bovee says

              If Jefferson Capital is not reporting there is no need for the letter. But you may need to send one on other items if they have not been updated. You have resolved debts since obtaining that 3 in 1 credit report, so you should pull another and work from that. You can also get one free one every 12 months from the 3 majors through Have you run your free ones in the last 12 months?

              Once you pull a current report, locate anything you have questions about, and lets go from there.

              You can request a consumer statement be removed in any of your correspondence, or in a dedicated request.

  47. Kimberly says

    Hi there, I really need help on what to do. I was in debt with BestBuy/Capital One who I called to confirm if they did sell my account. They confirmed that my account with them for $1500 was sold to Collect America. I called Collect America and they told me that my account is assigned to Scott P. Lowery Law Firm. A lady at that Law Firm was professional in the start. I think my mistake was I agreed to settle for $1200. I was also paying another “supposed collector” for a payday loan I took out because this guy Detective Patrick said I would be arrested. I later found out it was a scam. Back to Natalie at Scott Law Firm..I gave her my account number. However, after realizing I was scammed, I went into the bank and reported it and changed all my accounts. I called Natalie to inform her but she was not in the office. I asked the guy If I can talk to him as it was important but he hung up on me. So I called Natalies line and left a VM for her to call me back regarding important information. I called back the next day and told her I changed my account. She got mad and said I went behind their back to do that and it is against the law. I explained to her I did not go behind their back but she wouldnt listen. I also told her I do not want to pay using my checking account but I am willing to send money via western union or have my bank send them a certified check. She said she will write me off as refusal to pay. I called again to work something out and agreed over the phone to settle for 500 now and 500 later total 1000. Again they said the only way I could pay was by checking account. Today I called again and she offered me a settlement of 1267.00 where I can pay before 10-31-13 of 226.00 and the remaining on November 15, 2013. I agreed to that settlement and asked her to have it in writting and she got mad and said why should she have it in writing if I “lied” about my checking account and did not pull through on my first agreement for 1200 settlement. I asked her to also email me the settlement agreement and she said no. Then she told me to email her supervisor to give permission to email me. Then she turned around and said the deal is off. I asked her why she kept changing the deal and she said because she knew I wouldnt pay it. I asked her why she gave me a deal she thought I cant pay and she did not answer. I told her I had to go as I was going in to work and she said if I hung up on her I will get it. I asked her if that was a threat and she said “yes I am threatening you”. I know my actions show that I am not in good faith to pay but I am. I was scammed so I changed my account number not because I was avoiding them to take money from me. And after reading that I do not want to pay using my checking account and I do not want to pay until I get the settlement agreement in writing. My actions may say otherwise, I know. What do I do??? I want to pay what I owe, I just got a steady job and can afford to pay little but she wont agree to anything when I ask for a letter of settlement agreement. Please help me?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Kimberly – The collector for the Scott Lowery firm is making this a good amount more complicated than it should be. They collect debt and struggle to contact people that are both willing and able to pay. You are both. I would try to simplify this and connect with her supervisor. Not to complain, but because you are having difficulty communicating with the Natalie. Be polite and keep a business tone, but firm in the fact you need documentation of the settlement. Once you have a settlement letter, it is fine to pay via your account and over the phone, but I also understand the reluctance. Using a certified check issued by your bank, and from your account, is fine. I never recommend using Western Union to pay a settlement.

      If you run into any difficulty please post an update to this comment string and lets go from there.

  48. maria says

    hi, i was planning on buying a house and a debt showed up on my credit resport. I called the creditor and told them i would pay in full just so as long as they send me, fax me a written agreement as to the date, how much i agree to pay as well as it saying “paid in full” and removed from my credit report. Im very hesistant in sending money because its happen to me where another debt surfaced on my credit report even after i paid and they claim they never received anything and i cant make that same mistake especially with a large amount. The creditor’s name is Amsher collection serv. but told me i had to call their law offices, in whom i spoke to. They will not provide a written agreement until they receive payment but every forum ive read said i need that! ive tried to negotiate twice now in paying full in return they provide that letter before i send them payment. The second time i called they refuse that written agreement until i paid than proceeded to say their hanging up now because i said “i know it will help you guys out in the long run but how do i know you this agreement is correct on your end” i dont know what to do?? if they wont negotiate! i really need to buy a house. if you do suggest i pay anyhow how do i pay? with my bank account? a personal check?

    • Michael Bovee says

      maria – How soon are you looking to purchase a home? Is there an offer or loan pending? That will change the feedback I have for you.

      • Maria says

        I need to prequalify first, the mortgage broker needs me to at least pay the debt before they can even think about trying to get me prequalified. I know my score is low because of this debt. I would like to get purchase a home by the end of this year. Please advise me on how to deal with creditor? My credit score is low and I know it’ll take time to get up I need at least a 620 and because of this debt I have a 571. Please help

  49. sam says

    Hi Michael,
    Thanks for the information. I negotiated a settlement with a debt collector and got an settlement offer letter. Here is what is says

    ” Please be advised that XXXXXX, LLC will accept $xxx as settlement on the Balanced Due for the account referenced above.

    Upon receipt of verified funds representing $xxx of the balance due XXXXXX, LLC will close the account.”

    Is this good enough?
    Thanks in advance


    • Michael Bovee says

      sam – What you shared is pretty standard verbiage in a settlement agreement. If you are up to it, you can send me a copy of the letter by fax or email and I can review it with you. No charge.

      Post a comment reply if you want take me up on the offer. I will send you an email with my contact info after that.

  50. aflac says

    Hi Mike,
    Your post have been really helpfull. I have a question , I am trying to setlle a debt. The debt is with cavalry and a company called Glass mountain Capital called me and mentioned that cavalry is thier clinet. They sent me a settlement offer letter by email. It has my account information and it lists cavalry as thier client. First of all can I work with Glass mountian capital if yes is this letter through email good enough or should I get a letter faxed to me?
    I will be happy to share the letter with you if you want to review it.

    • Michael Bovee says

      aflac – You can send a copy of the letter to the email address you get this comment notification from. I will post my feedback in a comment reply on this page, or may email you with additional questions.

        • Michael Bovee says

          aflac – I sent you an email this morning with my feedback. Great settlement offer with significant savings. Glad you are in a position to take advantage of it.

          • Aflac says

            Hi Michael,
            The payment was made on time and Glass mountain capital has sent me a letter showing a $0 balanced due. Wanted to get your opinion on this. Would you please mind reviewing the letter?

                • Michael Bovee says

                  Aflac – I reviewed the Zero Balance Letter you received from Glass Mountain Capital. The letter looks fine to me. It is becoming more common, and even standard operating procedure, for collectors to provide those types of letters after an account is resolved.

                  It is worth mentioning, at least for future readers, that I see your experiences with Glass Mountain collections (the parts shared with me) as exemplary of fair collections practices.

                  There is a great deal of change coming to debt collection in 2014 resulting from CFPB rule making that is yet to be fully outlined. I expect legitimate collection agencies and debt buyers practices – regarding documenting settlements and payments – to be much more consistent with your experience.

                  • Aflac says

                    Thanks so much again for your advice and time. Now I need to make sure that my cavalry balance shows up as zero in my credit report and I will do it

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      I typically suggest waiting up to 60 days to check your credit reports to be sure Cavalry updates the balance they are reporting due as zero – unless you have a loan product pending approval – in which case you can expedite the correction with the bureaus.

                      If your credit reports do not get updated, post a comment and I can offer some action steps to consider from there.

                    • Aflac says

                      I want to expedite the correction process. Should I write to the reporting agencies directly?

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      Yes. You can include a copy of the agreement and proof of payment with your letter requesting the correction. Send through the mail certified return receipt. Save a copy of every thing in the event you need to fall back on that later.

  51. Chelsea says

    Hi Michael,

    I came across your website and actually settled with LVNV this afternoon. They transferred me to Northland Group to do the settlement and I did ask for a letter to be emailed before I pay the settlement. The letter lists all the information that you mention except it does not say paid in fill. However, it does say that a letter will be sent stating that this account has been resolved. This is a one paragraph simple letter that looks like it was typed by the gentleman that I spoke with. Is this letter ok or should I have them add the” paid in full” to it?

    Thank you for your time!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Chelsea – Reference to being paid in full is not necessarily something to get hung up on. Does the settlement letter from Northland Group reference that you are settling in anyway shape or form?

  52. Yolanda says

    I co-signed on a car loan, and, it defaulted. I contacted the creditor and found the amount owed is $2,700. My credit report shows $2119 as the amount due, but the original amount defaulted was $1800 but the account incurred fees. I want it to show paid on my credit record without paying the $2,700. The creditor has been posting a FP monthly for the past 12-16 months and I didn’t realize this. The credit union has not made an attempt to collect. I called them for the balance. What is a fair amount to offer? I have no special financial circumstances other than I didn’t feel the debt was mine and failed to think of the affect on my credit. Please offer your advice!

  53. Yolanda says

    Sorry, the credit union was never able to repo the car because it was dismantled. Now, it’s back in working order. Is there a way I can request the title released to me?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Yolanda – You will not be able to get the title released to you with a balance still remaining due on the loan. Depending on the circumstances, you would not be able to get it released to you at all, as the cosigner.

      You will not be able to offer the money in return for the removal of the late pays on your credit report in most instances like you have described. Often the best you can do is to resolve the debt and get the fact that zero is now owed updated, and then let time heal the credit score.

      Do you know what the cars value is today (regardless of what is still owed on the loan)?

  54. Yolanda says

    Thank you for responding, good advice is hard to find.

    Ok, so I can make an offer of 65-75% of the $2100 with this amount satifying the debt but not deleting the info? That would be fine, I just want it to show paid and move on by starting a to improve my score. My score is currently at 697. I checked the value of the car, which is currently at $7,500.

    I paid the mechanic $800 and renewed the tags $65. I gain possession of the car 3-4 months ago. The co-signer agreed that I should have possession if I paid mechanic. The mechanic contacted me after he held the car in a demantlrd state for so long. I have a signed notarized document from the co-signee. Is it legal?

    Thanks again!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Yolanda – I tend to target settlements with credit unions at a higher rate in general. Given the debt is secured by the car, and they have title, settling this and getting title released could mean getting them to accept the balance owed, but waiving fees and the like, is as good as it gets. It is not like you can dig in and work to show the car could not be sold for what is owed. They can estimate the value and see that repossession in this case likely means getting paid the loan balance, the fees, and repo costs.

      You should not have any problems with the cosigner docs, though you may need them to sign off on something more state DOL conforming, but that is for titling after the credit unions security interest is removed. If there is something unique to be done by the credit union when sending title, they would be able to speak to that, or you could call the state department of licensing and run down the scenario and ask them what you will need.

  55. Yolanda says

    Thanks again, I will visit the credit union and pay the amount due next week. It will feel right to pay them what they are owed and move on. I will look into the required form for the title and work on that. If I’m able to sell the car, I hope to donate the proceeds to charity after reimbursing myself.

    Will it take 7 years for my credit to improve?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Yolanda – Negatives like this car loan tend to have the biggest drag on your credit report when they are fresh. If your credit looks good besides this loan, than the sting to your credit score should diminish in the next 12 and 24 months once you resolve the balance being reported to zero.

  56. Alicia says

    I have the money to negotiate the collection balances and have called, but the company is unwilling to negotiate a reduced rate. I didn’t expect them to but now I want to know if I do pay it in full, how will it get removed from my credit report or how will a “collections paid in full” status effect my score? Is it worth paying it off if it will stay on my report for another 7 years. Or should I try to get them to remove it? Thanks for the advice.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Alicia – It would really help to know more details about the type of debt you are trying to negotiate and settle (credit card, medical bill, deficiency balance), how long the bill has gone unpaid, etc.

      Paying an old debt in full does not generally get it removed from your credit reports. But anyone reporting must furnish accurate, complete, and current information. That means updating the debt is now zero balance. That is often as good as it gets. But it does not give a new 7 year clock to the negative info. And some credit scoring models no longer factor in paid collections (Vantage has one model, hoping FICO offers a similar model soon too).

      • Alicia says

        Thank you for the response. I have one collection balance since 2008 for $667 (unwilling to settle or negotiate), another is a cell phone bill of $305 and is a year old, dish network for $366 that is 3-4 months old and a medical collections for $100 that is 4-5 years old. I plan to pay them off soon and have the money to do so, just wasn’t sure how the collections paid in full would effect my credit score. Once I pay the bill off can I ask for a letter that the collection balance has been paid in full and what should be an acceptable time frame for me to rec’v such letter? Thanks for your help.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Alicia – You would get the most from paying the accounts that went into collection in the last couple years. You should be negotiating your settlements and payoffs first, getting that agreement in writing, before sending payments of any kind out (in most collection cases like you have). If there is any debt collector you struggle with, post an update comment here for feedback.

  57. Will says

    I have a debt that I’m trying to pay off. I offered them the amount in full if they would remove it from my credit report entirely – they said they couldn’t. I then offered to pay off the bill in full if they would list on my credit report “paid in full”. They said that they would do this, but that they could not send a letter agreeing to it before hand. I’ve read everywhere that you need to get it in writing before making the payment. They said they would send the receipt after the payment, but that was all. They said they were under regulations and could not send out the letter. The amount is for a medical bill for roughly 3,500.00 and was collected 4 months ago. What should I do?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Will – I do have feedback to offer, but want to be sure I understood what you shared. Did you pay the 3500.00 4 months ago, or you have made no payment at all, but are ready and willing to?

        • Michael Bovee says

          Okay. Do not expect any benefit to your credit report from making monthly payments on the collection. But you mentioned being ready to pay in full, and taking that route, any furnisher is required to send only accurate, current and complete info to the agencies. They are not doing you a favor, they are doing what is required. It can take a month or two for all of that. But you want proof of payment and a letter agreeing to same (or a receipt). This way, if the collection agency does not update the credit reports, you can do that with your own dispute.

  58. Janel says

    I have an old utility bill that I would like to pay off. The date the first delinquency was reported was 4/2009, the account has had no activity since then. However on my credit report it is showing as an open account and the date it was last reported was 12/6/2013 (it’s hitting it every month). My question is this…I contacted the utility company directly and they offered me a settlement of 20% off my balance. I currently owe roughly $900.00, with the settlement offer I would owe $771.00. I asked for an agreement, letter, statement, etc. stating that once I paid the 771.00 my account would be settled. They stated they did not and could not provide any documentation once I settled my account. I don’t feel comfortable paying this much and not receiving any documentation, I’m not sure what to do.

  59. Michelle says

    Hello. My husband and I are trying to buy a house but before we can close we have to settle and release a judgment. We hired an attorney who drafted an agreement that included a signed agreement date and deadline for release. Our attorney said the other party accepted our offer but the deadline has passed and we have not received a signed agreement. In the meantime, we are still being billed by our attorney. Do we walk away from the deal?

      • Michael Bovee says

        Michelle – Who is the judgment creditor, and did the deal involve a single lump sum payoff for the judgment that is less than the balance owed?

        • Michelle says

          Fireside Bank was the original creditor for a vehicle we voluntarily had repossessed in 2007. We lost our home and vehicles because we lost half of our income. Cavalry Portfolio filed a judgment against us in 2007 and has since garnished my husbands wages for approximately $8,000. The garnishments stopped and we thought it had been settled at that point. When we tried to purchase a home, the judgment could not be released because Cavalry did not report any payments and refused to release because they said we still had an outstanding balance. We hired an attorney to get a lump sum settlement which in an email, they agreed to accept. They did not sign the agreement letter served to them by our attorney which had a deadline of January 29, 2014.

  60. Michelle says

    Also, $3,000 is less than the balance owed although the amount garnished and the $3,000 offer would be close to the amount left on the original contract. I do not know how much they sold the vehicle for but there was a credit on our account of $2,500 or so. The balance owing is interest and attorney fees to the best of my knowledge.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Okay. If I were in your shoes, and had already paid the attorney to progress this far, I would hold tight. If the deal is not completed in the next week or so, post an update.

      Are you under the gun with a closing date or anything like that?

  61. Jeff M. says

    I have a credit card debt from Wells Fargo ($7000.00 from 2008) that is in collections with ASSET ACCEPTANCE LLC. They sent me a letter to settle in full for $3200. I can not come up with the total amount.. I called and they then said if I paid $1100 before the end of February they would settle the debt for a new total of $5000 as long as I made $100 payments monthly.

    Here is my concern. They said they would only put something in writing with a paid in full settlement and nothing in writing when payments have to take place. I asked about my protection with the “agreement” being pretty much verbal. They said their calls are all recorded and that would be my remedy if something other than what we agreed upon should happen.. and said again they would “…only provide something in writing if I settle in full…”!?!?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Jeff – As you can tell from the critical report, and all of the comments, I am a huge fan of getting everything documented. An alternative is to record all of the agreement in a phone conversation yourself. Tell Asset Acceptance you are recording the call right out of the gate, and because they are unwilling to document your settlement. Get all of the details covered in the above report outlined to you verbally. Identify the recovery person on the other end of the phone etc.

      Later this year I believe the CFPB will include documentation of payment plans and settlements as a requirement of all debt collectors and debt buyers in new rules for the industry. Right now that is only a state specific requirement (with few requiring). Not that this helps you right now (more for later readers).

  62. Michelle says

    Our closing date is Thursday. We heard from the attorney and it appears they filed something in August (hiring the attorney that garnished our checks the first time) to do so again but that attorney withdrew from the case on January 16th. Our attorney also said the attorney in charge of the judgment is revising the agreement (which means they are most likely going to ask for more money). This means we will definitely lose our money on the house and not be able to close.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Michelle – One suggestion, if you have the resources available, would be to pay the judgment balance directly to the court and expedite satisfaction that way.

  63. Cheryl says

    Hi Michael,

    I’m trying to Settle a debt with Harvest Credit Management. I’m dealing with The Moore Law Group. I do have a judgement againts me because I did not show up to court. They are willing to settle with me. They sent me through the mail a letter of Amended Payment Agreement for a settlement letter. I was wondering if you could take a look at it to see if it’s a good letter. I would hate for something to come back to bite me later. The letter does not state that this will be paid in full… or from how I interpret it. I called them and they said it is a standard letter and that it won’t be paid in full because it’s a settlement for a lesser amount. They also told me to have someone take a look at the letter if I was not comfortable.

    Who or what can I do to make sure the letter is good?

    Thank you so much.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Cheryl – I am happy to review the letter and share my feedback. You can send me an email with the letter attached, or we can use email to coordinate your faxing or mailing. My email address is the one you receive comment notifications from.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Cheryl – I reviewed the settlement documents you sent to me today. That is a great settlement on a judgment with Harvest Credit.

      I see nothing that would concern me if that letter were one I were acting on for myself. You can, and should, run this by your own attorney in order to proceed with absolute confidence.

      Good Job!

      • Cheryl says


        Thank you so much for taking a look at it. I currently do not have legal counsel. Although, it’s always a good idea.

        Thanks again,

  64. Amy says

    Hey Michael,
    Just off the phone with MRS. I read your page before calling them. I have debt from Verizon for 450.00 and they sent a settlement for 112. I asked for a settlement letter to be sent and they denied one existed with their company. It was stated that my offer is “the letter”. It has everything you listed on it, accept any words of “satisfied” or settled in “full”. The manager got on the phone and insisted they would send a letter 2 weeks after my payment is made. I told that is your word and that is my money. That I would like an agreement that this will be final and won’t be sold to another collector and can be cleared from my credit. She said the letter is approved by a lawyer and they don’t send anything not approved and cannot send any settlement agreement letter. She said if I don’t believe her then I won’t be making this payment and will continue with the original debt. Its due 2-16-14. Should I send it or what can I do?
    Thank you,

    • Michael Bovee says

      Amy – How does the letter reference the payment? Does it say settled? Getting hung up on the word “full” is not necessary in a lot of instances.

      I am not sure why you are asking for a letter stating that the rest of the balance will not be transferred or sold to another debt collector. Where did you read that is something to look for? It isn’t. That part is inferred in the settlement. If you have to deal with a mistake later where something like that does happen, the settlement letter and the proof of timely payment is what you use to deal with that.

      Most collection agencies do not do pay for delete, which is what you are looking for when asking for the account to be cleared from your credit. The account should be updated to show a zero balance owed though.

      It is true that these letters with larger collection agencies, like MRS Associates, are approved for use by legal counsel. The collector on the phone, nor the supervisor, or the supervisors manager etc., is likely going to be in a position to make adjustments to the language in the agreements they use. If you are holding out for the changes you referenced wanting, you will likely not be settling this with MRS.

  65. SarahL says

    Hello. I have enjoyed reading your articles and comments/responses left!
    I do need some clarification and help though, if that is all right.

    I have some debt.. mostly student loans in the consolidated amount of 13,000 thru myfedloan. I am fine paying the payments for these as I am on income based repayment and qualify for 0$. the next largest debt is a lab fee left over after a student loan direct with the school. its 1500$ thru Indiana university-purdue university of Indianapolis. it is in collections status. I contacted the lender directly since the collection agency was not negotiating well with me. I was able to get a reasonable payment plan. last debt (that I am aware of) is a collection notice I received yesterday for 425$ from imc (state of Indiana which I live in). I am pretty sure its medical bills-just not totally sure. I would like to settle for 25% with collection agency.

    First question: with my debt of 1500$ could I still try to negotiate this? or can I not since I have agreed and made payments per payment plan?
    second question: with the last debt mentioned, would I be able to settle with my own letter via email for paper trail? I would like deletion as well.
    Third question: if you have any further advice or comments about my situation I would love to hear it! Even if there is something you advise about my student loan debt.

    thank you for your time and words of advice!

    • Michael Bovee says

      SarahL – It is not all that common to settle medical debts for 25% of the balance. Not impossible, and more possible the longer the debt sat there collecting dust, but higher percentages are something to be prepared for.

      The 1500 private debt is better negotiated when payments are not being made. If you can afford to pay, you should consider that. If this one is not on your credit report, and the other ones are rehabbed, and no longer report late, one medical collection is not all that hard to bounce back from credit wise. If you do work toward settling this debt instead, I find having the agreement on their letter head to be better than a letter you create. Also consider that, in all likelihood, your letter will not conform to that institutions policies for such things. You will typicality not get an agreement for deleting the negative from your credit report. It is not impossible, but nearly so. Who is the debt collector?

  66. Marie says

    Hello Michael,

    I have a question concerning an order of judgement and information subpoena. I have received paper work in a name similar to mine but not my correct name stating a judgement has been filed against me and I need to file out then return the attached subpoena to the Law Office of Kevin Z. Shine, PLLC on behalf of CACH LLC/GE Money Bank. I recognize the original creditor and account/credit card number but they have a different first name listed. The amount last due to GE Money Bank in my actual name was $2,700 and this judgement is for $2,900 with 9% interest until paid. I have never spoke to the Law Office regarding the account but have collected $3,000 and to pay the judgement because the original debt is mine. My issues are: Do I contact them to have the information corrected in my actual name and then pay? Do I contact the court the judgement is file through to have information updated/change? If I obtain a settlement/paid in full letter and pay the judgement in this other name will it legally settle the actual date in my actual name? I just want to clean up old debts while having any legal document needed if something should come up down the road.

    Thank you for your time,

    • Michael Bovee says

      Marie – You have an interesting situation here. And because you have the money in hand to pay this old debt off, I would expect the attorney that sued you with the wrong name may be your advocate in this. It is the entire court record that shows the wrong name was used through out right? Not just this last document you received? If so, you could call them and let them know of the issues and that you can pay your old bill, but would prefer the case in the wrong name be vacated, and an agreement drafted that states as much prior to any payment.

      You could also talk about this situation with an experienced consumer law attorney, and ask for their help. I would be upfront about the fact that you have the money in hand to pay the bill off, but because you were sued under the wrong name, would like the court case gone. Ask if they can represent you in the effort to settle and vacate for a reasonable price.

      If the settlement you have in your hand is all you want to deal with, and are not into getting the underlying misnamed case corrected in anyway, tell the attorney suing you the issue and get the letter corrected to show your name, account etc.

      • Marie says

        Thank you for your quick response! Yes all letters, summons complaint, and judgement are in the wrong name. I can just call explain my issues and ask they vacate? What should I be asking for in return as proof just a corrected settlement letter? Sorry for all the questions, I want to feel as prepared as possible before I call them. I would love to get everything corrected, paid, and get some sleep. I’m sure I would like to address the name issue if it is noted on my credit report. I have been holding out pulling me reports because I was aware of this old debt and wanted to pay it before checking my credit. I do find it a bit unnerving that a full legal case with default judgement can be processed under the wrong name.
        Thanks again!

  67. Frances says

    Hello Mike,

    I received a call from a representative at Walter Riley and Associates regarding a debt from 2001. The creditor then was 1st Premier Bank for a credit card. The settlement amount is $335.37. The account was sent to collection in 2001. This account is no longer on my credit report. The representative informed me that I must pay off the account at the settlement amount of $335.37 or I would be sued and the total amount at that time would be roughly $5000.00. My concern is that I am unable to locate Walter Riley and associates through any search engines. I have called the 855 number given to me and all the recording says is “you have contacted legal services.” Any attorney’s office that I have contacted over the years always says there name on their message. I did make payment arrangement with them over the phone which begins a month later but have yet to receive any documentation from them via mail, fax or e-mail. Is there a statue of limitation in California for such accounts?Am I still liable for this amount from 1st premier bank dating back to 2001?

    Thank you for your time,

    • Michael Bovee says

      Frances – I do not like what you described having happened. Credit card statute of limitations (for a legitimate collection lawsuit to be filed) in California is 4 years. Legitimate debt collectors know that. Having a collector threaten to sue on a 13 year old debt means they could be a flat out scam, or are willing to violate consumer protection laws. Either way, not an outfit I want my money going to. If it were me, I would:

      Call my bank, explain what happened, ask for their advice about stopping payment, or how to prevent anything from processing. You may not like this, but your bank may advise you to close your account and open a new one.

      Call a consumer law attorney about suing this outfit for collection law violations if they think that is a good idea. Many attorneys that specialize in this area of law (FDCPA violations), take cases on a contingency, so you are not charged a retainer. I can email you contact info if you like.

      File a complaint with the CFPB.

      I would approach all of this in that order.

      As far as being liable… debts do not really go away. Unpaid bills do fall off your credit report after so much time, and lawsuits to collect become time barred. But the debt is there still. What you choose to do with the debt after those lines are crossed is more of a personal decision, at least that is the way I look at it.

      • Frances says

        Hi Mike,

        Thank you for replying to my post. Thank you for clarifying my questions. I gave the representative a prepaid card number with a zero balance due to this not sounding legit. I would really appreciate any info you can share with me to resolve this issue.

        Thanks again,


        • Michael Bovee says

          Frances – Contact an attorney in California with FDCPA experience. I will send you contact info to one you can talk to about this – no cost for the consult. That is my best suggestion for what to do next about this.

          Also, do not allow yourself to be pressured in to giving bank, debit, or credit account information out to a debt collector over the phone.

  68. Megan says

    Hi Michael,
    I had an approval for a medical procedure and the insurance co is now denying payment to the hospital and anesthesiologist (paid the surgeon though). I am continuing to try to appeal the decision with the insurance company. Unfortunately, the anesthesiologist sent the bill to a collector. The bill was originally $2224 (I know this is what they charge the insurance co and not the patient if they have no insurance). I feel pressured to pay and do not believe insurance will resolve this prior to the 60 days before the collection agency reports to the credit agency. I have gotten the collection agency down to $1668. They want me to pay the bill that day by 6:00 p.m. I didn’t do it – I need more time to figure this out. I asked for a settlement letter and they said they do not provide settlement letters and that their recorded calls are proof of the agreed amount and debt being paid. Everything I read makes me uncomfortable with the fact that they won’t provide a letter. The agency is Nationwide Recovery Service.

    I have tried to work with the anesthesiologist’s office to get an adjusted bill for patients that pay out of pocket but they say it’s out of their hands, I have to work with the collection agency.

    Any advise you have to offer is surely appreciated.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Megan – If you do end up settling with Nationwide Recovery you can record the call with them. Let them know you are recording and why. Hit all the highlights covered in the report above, get any questions answered, and clarity you need. Keep a copy of the recording stored in several places (on hard drive, and a thumb drive, burn a disc). And also have a record of the payment transaction from your bank account.

      1668.00 may be as good as it gets.

      • Megan says

        Michael – I appreciate your response. It is so nice that you are doing this for people. Thank you so much!

  69. David says

    I am trying to settle a account with portfolio recovery associates the will only send me a settlement letter through email and then after I make the payment send the letter through the mail what should I do.

    • Michael Bovee says

      David – Email is okay in some instances, especially when the Portfolio Recovery settlement agreement is an attachment to the email (so just like a letter they may mail). Post a comment with the from address, and compare the email agreement to the content in the above report, and lets go from there.

  70. Pete says

    Hi Michael, I have a judg.ement lien on my property in Kentucky from Capital One/Mapother and Mapother for $2000.00. I am selling the house and just received an offer on it and accepted, with a closing on 4-4-2014. I am going to see if they will settle for less. Once an agreement is reached, how long does it take for a satisfaction of judgment to clear at the court house? Can I go to the attorney and settle with funds at their office. And get a satidfaction letter from them if they agree. ? Can I take that to the courthouse and get the lien removed? Or should I just wait until closing and pay it off with proceeds? Will the pay off clear in time not to stop the closing? Suggestions? Thanks

    • Michael Bovee says

      Pete – I have had customers be able to walk in and fund a settlement offer with the local attorney. It really only expedites the mail lag time, and would not expedite anything if payment was made over the phone. At least… not in your situation (as long as you have documentation in hand prior to payment).

      The part that is going to take the most time is updating the court record. I prefer that the plaintiff do it, but you can file with the court too. There is also the documentation and proof of payment you have that you can give to the title company.

      Settling with Mapother and Mapother is worth a shot. At the end of the day, like you said, title will send a demand request and pay the whole thing off out of escrow. Just be sure they do not send that demand request prior to your negotiation efforts. Settlements for less in this scenario do not happen when the other side can see all of your cards.

  71. Pete says

    Thanks Michael, Just settled with Mapother for 1500, well its something. But only thanks to your site. They did not want to send a settle letter until I mentioned this website and they quickly changed their tune. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR GREAT SITE ITS AMAZING WHAT A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE WILL DO!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Mario – Can you be more specific about what you have going on here? Is this something where you negotiated a deal, made the payment(s) accordingly, and are not getting the documentation of all of this that was promised? Are you asking a creditor to send you a prior settlement offer they mailed to you that was never acted on? Something else.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Mario – You should check with an attorney in your state, but I am doubtful that there is anything illegal about the creditor not resending you a settlement offer.

          If the offer was something you could not take advantage off then, but are better able to today, and they will not make that same offer, lets talk about that. What percentage of the balance are you able to offer as a settlement? How long has it been since you last made a payment? Are you dealing with the credit originator, or a debt collector at this time?

  72. Kerri says

    Hi Michael, We have 6-8 credit cards which we are to the point of being late. I had 2 surgeries the end of last year and we are drowning in debt. We are currently paying our mortgage and car loan 2-3 weeks late (doesn’t affect our credit, but is accumulating fees). I called a couple of the cc companies last month to see if they would work with us (we haven’t been late yet). I’m finding that they won’t do anything to help; from what I’ve heard, we have to be late. We’ve looked into debt management companies vs trying to settle them ourselves. We don’t want to pay the add’l fees associated with DM companies.
    The companies we are dealing with are Capital One, USAA, US Bank, and a few department stores. What can we expect as far as a settlement with the credit card companies. Can we expect that they will offer a settlement or will we have to wait til it goes to a collection agency/debt collector? We really do not want to end up in a lawsuit over any of this. Do you know if the companies we’re dealing with normally work with the customer or would we benefit to go thru a DM company? Thank you for your time!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Kerri – If you are up to it, I highly recommend negotiating and settling the debts yourself. When you save on professional fees, that money helps you to settle your debts with USAA, CapOne, USbank and the others that much faster. The faster you pay off the settlements, the less risk of aggressive collections, the sooner your credit can start to bounce back, the less stress….

      I would prepare to settle CapOne at around 50% (maybe with them direct before charge off).
      USAA I typically estimate at 40% settlements, but the numbers have come in more favorable than that.
      US bank has tightened up a bit. My target here would be 40%, but would start lower and see if your file is one that would do better.
      You would need to post your department store cards to get some feedback.

      Those estimates are when settling direct with the lender, and before charge off. Once an account gets dropped into a collection bucket (see this post) your settlement percentages, and the best way to time your efforts, can all change.

      Those banks you listed would all willingly work with you. I have settled debts for customers with each of those banks, and I would not say they have a preference per say, but you can get as good a deal as I can, or probably any other debt management company, so take that route first. Hire a pro if you hit a road block, or if you are not confident of your ability to negotiate.

      Just curious, what are the totals of all of these credit card debts, including the department store cards?

  73. JT says

    Thank you for such an informative site!

    I had a cc debt to Citibank that was apparently sold to Atlantic Credit / John Frye. I requested validationa and recently received a packet they got from the original creditor. I am unsure how to proceed. They requested that I call them, because I told them not to call me., I had an attorney working on thw possibility of bankruptcy, which I have so far been able to avoid.

    I want to settle (10~15 percent), but reading the above comments, you indicated that the offer should come from them. Should I send a letter requesting a settlement offer? Call and ask for one? We seem to be at a bit of an impasse. I definitely want to avoid getting sued.

    Thank you in advance.

    • Michael Bovee says

      JT – If you want to settle you will have to be more realistic about the amount you need to come up with. 10 to 15 percent settlements are just not common.

      I prefer settlement agreements be on the creditor or debt collectors letterhead. Most negotiations and settlement dialogue should be done over the phone, not through the mail, in my experience. If it were me, I would call them.

      If you do not mind me asking, if all you want to do is negotiate an affordable settlement, why are you sending a debt validation request and telling debt collectors to cease calling you?

      • JT says

        I requested the debt validation letter based on the advice I got from my attorney, and all communication was supposed to go through him, which was why I asked them not to call me. Now that it is evident that I cannot file for bankruptcy (long story), negotiating seems the only way to go.

        What is a common amount for a lump sum payment? I was given to understand that the amount was less if it was a lump sum rather than a payment plan?

        Thank you for your advice, I clearly have gotten some incorrect information!

        • Michael Bovee says

          Debt validation has its place. But when you want to settle, or otherwise resolve a debt, when you know it is yours, requesting validation can actually be counter productive. There are some who promote sending a debt validation letter every time all the time, but more to deny the debt, or attempt to never pay. I am sure your bankruptcy attorney is not in that camp.

          A realistic settlement amount would be 35 to 45%. How long ago was the last payment made to Citibank? And yes, a lump sum offer is typically going to have a better chance of succeeding, and of being lower, than a settlement offer with monthly payment terms.

          • JT says

            The last payment to Citi was 12/2012. It was charged off in July 2013 and I received the first notice from Atlantic that they *owned* the debt was in August, I believe. They aren’t working for Citi, they bought it.

            I read somewhere that they only hold it for a certain amount of time before selling it again. What kind of timeline am I looking at to be able to work with them before they sell off to someone else?

            • Michael Bovee says

              Some debt buyers rarely, if ever resell debt (PRA and Midland being larger examples of this). I do not know whether Atlantic resells, and if they do, when they look to cycle out of non performing purchases. I would look to gauge the timeline for the account moving by how long Frye has been contacting you. Can you pinpoint the first time you heard from Frye, and was that by phone or mail?

              • JT says

                It was by phone, they called my cell and didn’t leave a message, so called someone else (that they weren’t allowed to according to law). That person then called me and told me. A few days later I got a letter from them. That was in August 2013.

  74. Sarah says

    I am a bit confused and could use some help!
    I am trying to clean up my credit report, its very poor. I have been paying off debts and been checking my score. I just saw a collections status from LB GRAY LLC, and its from 10/2012. I thought I had paid this off, but there is still a balance there. However, I have NOT received ANY letters to collect this debt, which is part of why I didn’t know there was still a balance. How should I go about fixing this? Id rather not pay it since I thought it was paid and have not been receiving letters.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Sarah – Do you have an agreement that covers the settlement, and proof that you paid? If so, your request for that info to be corrected should go off with out a hitch.

  75. Gerri says

    We are trying to help our son resolve some credit issues with Verizon. He received a debt collection letter from Stephens and Michaels for more than $1K. Our son does not have all the paperwork from the original bill and says that Verizon didn’t credit him with amounts that they owed him. He cancelled the contract with Verizon years ago and paid extra to end the contract. Stephens and Michaels offers a one time settlement of $400. Do we need more proof from them that this is the end of the problem?
    Please advise. We have little time to deal with this. The letter is dated March 12, 2014 but wasn’t received until around March 25th, not really sure. We were planning to pay the $400, but not if it doesn’t end the dispute. Just not sure what the best way to handle this.
    Thank you in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Gerri – I would need to see the settlement offer letter. Are all of the elements I cover in the above report found in the settlement offer? Also, is this debt appearing on your sons credit reports in any way (whether by Verizon or a debt collector)?

  76. Del says

    Hi Michael I was reading some of the similar situations that I am experiencing right now. Almost 6 months 4-5 months ago I enrolled in a settlement program for 3 cards. Amex approx. 14000, citi4,ooo and target 2000. Right now i am schedule for non trial jury on May 29 by AMEX. believing the settlement program will work for me. I am worried that my other credit cards will summon me. 2 weeks ago I dropped the target not to include anymore on the settlement. Do I have the right to drop the citicard to avoid future summons and do I need a lawyer for amex? Can the settlement program I enrolled will negotiate with amex even though I have to go to court. I just want to pay what I owed monthly or settled without going to the court. I need your advice. Thank you.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Del – How much money can you pool together, from whatever sources, to get these settlements done in a hurry? If only able to do one at a time, how much can you pull together to handle the AMEX account?

  77. Janna says

    Michael –
    I reached an agreement with a law firm handling the collection of a credit card debt that I owe. We reached an agreement before I was to go to court over the matter. I asked them if they would dismiss the case with prejudice since I was making payments. I owe $4500 on the card, paid a $500 down payment and at this point have made 3 payments of $183. They said that they would not dismiss so that they could protect themselves, but that as long as I made my payments, they would stay the execution of any judgment unless I defaulted on my payments. I was the only one that showed up to court TWICE…I did tell the judge that I owed the debt and had no problem paying what I owed, so judgment was issued to the plaintiff…great, fine, and wonderful. However, I have since received a Journal Entry of Judgment…that according to the court, was issued by the law firm, and then signed off on at the court. This states that they were in court both times ( LIE )…that I was summoned twice and never showed up ( LIE )…even though the judges notes clearly state that I was the only one that appeared…and that a default judgment had been granted with 12% interest. Can I go after THEM for going against our agreement? I have everything in writing!!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Janna – You admitted to the debt in court and consented, or stipulated to judgment. Either what happened next was not explained to you well, or they did take entry of judgment too far (court clerk or plaintiff) if your agreement says final entry of judgment would not occur if all payments were timely. Are you prepared to hire and pay your own attorney to look into the issues? And even if it ends up nothing worthwhile can be done about it?

  78. Jonathan says


    I contacted the collections agency to request a paid in full or settlement letter. The person said they do not send those out until after the account is paid and that’s the way they do business. $200 is what is owed. Should I just pay it and call back to request the letter? Or are they doing business wrong?

    I’m dealing with enhanced recovery corporation in Jacksonville, FL

    Thank you

    • Michael Bovee says

      Jonathan – As an alternative, you could call Enhanced Recovery Co back, and let them know you are recording the call (and why), making sure to cover all of the points I mention in the debt settlement report above. Keep the recording in a safe place. If there are any complications after that, post an update and lets go from there.

  79. Delma says

    Finally, the settlement company negotiate with AMEX and came out with settlement proposal for me to review. They received a verbal commitment from AMEX to settle the account and they sent me the timeline of payment . The balance was 14,317.29 and settled for 9,307.00 and to pay for 12 months. The total savings is 5,010.29. The first payment will be on May 26, 2014. Is the settlement offer fairly calculated on my part? Do I missed something? The person I spoke from the settlement company will send me via email or mail the settlement letter to be signed and providing me a copy. My questions are: What important details I should know before I sign the documents? Is the letter of settlement should be from the creditor or from the settlement company? I have a scheduled non jury court date May 29, 2014 do I need to go or will they contact me not to go due to settlement payments are made in to place ? After the payments completed, do I need to ask a follow-up letter from AMEX that the debt resolved and paid? Thank you for the previous response you made for me . I need your more advice on my situation.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Delma – I cannot best advise you without a host of details, and even then, you really should run the settlement document, that is likely stipulating to a judgment (given the pending court date), by your own attorney to make sure you understand what you are agreeing to, and how you could be impacted if unable to follow through with payments.

      Post an update about whether you are stipulating/consenting to a judgment when you get the agreement to settle with payments.

  80. Judith says

    I have a letter of release from my debt. The organization made an error and confimed my payment and sent me a letter of release. Will this letter of release hold up in court even though my bank and their office made an error. Their company “confirmed and acknowledged” it and sent a letter of release


    • Michael Bovee says

      I am not sure of the details, so hard to respond to your question with anything other than general feedback.

      Mistakes happen. Someone on their end made one. Mistakes are often excusable. I would not rely on someones mistake if the intent was to pay a settlement. You and they know the money transaction had a hangup. I am sure the court would see that too.

  81. Sal says

    Hi Michael

    I had two credit cards with Macys that were transferred to a collection agency(law firm). We agreed on a settlement plan and just completed the last payment. My question to you what is the documentation that I should ask for as a proof of payments to send it out to credit Bureau to improve my credit. Do I also need any documentation from Macys, the original creditor

    Please advice


    • Michael Bovee says

      Were you sued by the attorney for the Macy’s credit cards? If so, they would typically file a satisfaction of debt with the court.
      If you negotiated the payment agreement before it got to court, was there any letter outlining the payment agreement on the Macy’s debt? If so, you can use that letter, and the proof of your payments, as part of a dispute with the credit bureaus.

      I do suggest waiting about 60 days to see the credit reports get updated as part of the normal work flow that collection companies have. The attorney collecting does not send any info to the credit bureaus, but the company that hired him does. Their systems, when working like they should, will often be how the credit bureaus get furnished updates about accounts being paid. Who was the attorney collecting for?

  82. April Jones says

    Do you have any information or advice on settling debt with Dynia and associates? Are they reputable and legit? I have a BofA cc that has been placed with this company. I have googled the company on the internet and found conflicting information. Thanks!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Dynia and Associates LLC is a legitimate debt collector that has been around a while. They are A+ members of the BBB and belong to NARCA (National Association or Retail Collection Attorneys).

      What percentage of the debt Dynia is trying to collect can you come up with as a settlement offer?

  83. Adam Y says

    Hi Michael,

    Great information here. I too have a debt issue to resolve. I have a $15k private student loan that was rushed to a charge off status from Key Bank in 2010. I’ve recently come up with $6500 and made them a settlement offer which they have accepted. Part of my offer included a request for a letter from them with only the words ‘paid as agreed’ as being reported to the credit bureaus. The letter arrived and instead of my requested phrase they included ‘ “paid in full, was a charge off” and will denote that the account was paid in full for less than the balance due.’ This is not exactly what I requested as a part of the agreement.

    I’m almost certain they recorded the telephone conversation. If I decide to use my savings in another way to improve my credit (paying down revolving credit card percentage to 10%) can they use the recorded verbal conversation to initiate and win a lawsuit?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Using that recording in a lawsuit is not all that likely, at least not from my experience.

      I like the direction you are going in with using your available cash flow to get the best result. What state are yo in?

      • Adam Y says

        I’m in Ohio. At first I was convinced that paying the charged off loan debt was the best credit repair option, but now that Keybank has not sent the settlement letter as I requested I’ve started exploring other uses for my cash flow. Also it sounds that a charge off settlement can wreak havoc on a credit score. But on the other hand, the last thing I want to do miss out on the settlement offer and/or have a suit filed based on a verbal telephone agreement. Just a little torn and it seems you offer great advice and experience to the weary debtor!!!

        • Michael Bovee says

          You may be right about the best use of funds being paying down debts until your credit utilization looks better. That does not have to be 10%. The benefit you get from settling the account you have an agreement negotiated with already, is that one can still sue you. I am not saying it will happen, but it still could, and the costs to resolve the debt by settling will often increase as a result.

          Settling rarely involves negotiating anything like the credit reporting changes that you requested. What they sent is pretty standard. The freshness update to an already negative collection trade line might knock your credit score down for a couple months, but not terribly, and not the case with all scoring models.

          If it were me, and making payments on my other debts that are current is not a struggle, I would settle the older debt and eliminate the risk of being sued. I would then put together a debt roll up strategy to pay down the other bills quickly.

  84. Dan says

    I have a 17k debt with MCM and I want to make a one time Lump settlement. I have a few questions.
    1. What is a good settlement amount?
    I want to get a settled in full letter before hand but hearing MCM will not provide that until a payment is set up. I do not want to give them my account info but wanted to pay quickly.
    2. Should I pay via credit card or debit card?
    3. Will MCM send me a settled in full letter without any “tricky wording” in it?
    I want to have the negative marks erased or cleaned up from my CR
    4. What specifically should i state i want detailed in my settlement letter before i send a single payment?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Settlement amounts you can negotiate with Midland Credit will vary. The more collectable you look to them, the more likely they will target higher rate offers with you. Do you have many other collection accounts on your credit reports? Do you have accounts other than a home or car loan being kept current and showing as much on your credit?

      You should not encounter anything out of the ordinary with your payment arrangements or settlement agreement with MCM. If you are concerned about something going off track, record your phone conversations when negotiating. Tell them upfront you are recording and why (if they will not realease a settlement agreement in writing before payment).

      The settlement agreement wording MCM uses should look like all of the standard letters for the same purpose. And there are no tricks to the contents of the letters.

      You should not expect to have negative marks erased from your credit. Cleaned up however, as in updated to show paid and zero balance owed, is standard updates that result from settling with companies like MCM.

      Realistic expectations for a settlement letter are what I cover in the original article above. Anything much outside of the norm (people ask for some things they will never get included), and you are not really going to accomplish much.

  85. Isaac says

    Hi, I made a settle with Capital One Auto to have my vehicle paid off within a year in the month of March. I have made the payments; however, Capital one does not want to send me a letter of Confirmation. What should I do in this situation.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Isaac – Can you offer more details of what you set up with Capital One and when? Was it this past March you set up payments? Did you end up with a new payment agreement, or amendment to the prior loan agreement? Were you simply looking to pay off a loan earlier than scheduled and want to be sure the payments and balance are being credited correctly?

  86. Ramsey says

    Hi there Michael,
    I came up upon this website when i reading around about credit issues and other related topics and gotta say I have learned a lot and still want to learn more.
    First of gotta say thanks for all contributions, advice and time you take to read (short or long comments) and act upon… really says a lot.

    Well here I am, wanted to see if I am on the right track of trying to get a debt settle from MCM for Tmobile as it may not be new to you ad other about this debt collecting agency… here is some details about this account: amount $600
    Lending Institution – Age – Comment – Date Last Reported
    MIDLANDMCM – 1 year and 6 months – Opened in 09/2012. – 02/2014

    Hope it makes sense i did’t make a table…
    I tried calling primary holder Tmob to discuss all the extra charges but they only had that number to call… so I just want to take care of it and have them report it as taken care off to the CRAgenies…
    Here is what i went by and hope I did okay…

    I called them at first to try to negotiate for $100 but wasn’t able to get a deal… after i read more on how long some of these agencies are willing to go down and accept i realized it was maybe too crazy to ask that but it didn’t worked after calls and calls…
    Finally well after more calls back and forth, the guy went down to $347.72 and said if that’s done that’d be it… Just want this taken care of without all the craziness it can generate. it still is reporated as an open account…

    Well i asked for settlement letter sent to me first stating all we talked about, dates and modality of payment i would use, i said by certified check or personal check and would wait for the letter first to come to me and we will proceed from there.

    I have the money but would rather wait for all this to come up in hand and then pay.
    Now i would like to see it out of my CR which i would imagine the guy said they will send a letter to the agencies stating account paid/settle for less the account showing… is that what it’s suppose to say or once i get the letter and ready to pay, What can i request from them so that this will end. Will that have an impact +/- on credit report once taken care off? After paying it, how long should I expect it reported or should i contact the Agencies after all this with all the proofs and have them dispute it?

    Thank you very much for your time and i am willing to email you as well if more details are needed.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Once you get your settlement letter and send payment (make sure you pay in time to meet any date on the settlement letter for funds receive by), Midland Credit will update the credit reporting agencies that the account is resolved and a zero balance owed. It can take a month or two for that to happen. You can sometimes get that done more rapidly (you need a home loan pushed through), but otherwise be patient. Check your credit reports after several weeks and verify that they followed through with what they are supposed to.

      Your credit report and credit scores are not a measure of this one account. If that were the case, your credit is not going to improve much until you make improvements to other elements of your credit profile. Do you have other collections on your credit besides this one?

      • Ramsey says

        Thanks for the reply…
        Ok i will go on and proceed to pay Midland once i receive the settlement letter which I have not yet received… I didnt quite get what you meant by “i need a home loan pushed through”… as to check when they update the acocunt in CR…
        I do not have accounts in collections but rather account closed from Toyota (story behing it: till today i cant get someone to explain clearly what happened… car was reported stolen to the police who impounded the car one morning…, officer told me. Then says i wont get anything other info but just answer to questions as to where/when/who i got the car from… (of course from the toyota dealership…) long story short before i was even cleared out from judge, i was using the car for my job, deliveries work related errands and all… so no more income coming in i couldnt continue paying which i explained to toyota creditor who themselves couldn’t even tell me what was going on…… long story short they ended seizing the car, so i cant get further info till judge clears it, toyota wanting money and still cant explain wheres that is coming from, nor dealer himself saying everything was okay… Finally lost it all… no wanting to be linked to anything kinda bad thing related to this, they sold car and expenses are on me, payments were fine till that event… which i asked to be settled real low…and whoever bought it wouldnt accept. now it says closed account… thats my next thing to clear out… that just put me in real bad shape since then, but had to stand back up… and keep rolling. Amount is $2300… would there be a chance to get that settle down to $500 – $1000? am guessing it would also be reported as “settled paid lesser of full amount”?

          • Michael Bovee says

            Sorry, reading comments in chronology and see that you answered part of my question. Please answer the remaining questions too.

        • Michael Bovee says

          The reference to home loans being pushed through would be if an unresolved debt was holding up a mortgage from being funded. There are things mortgage brokers can help with, like rapid re-score, in order to move things along a bit more quickly so that a loan can close.

          When was the last payment you made on the car? When was it sold at auction? Who was the past company you heard from in order to collect on that debt?

  87. Alison says

    If a debt settlement letter was not provided with the following (how do I get one 5 years later and I don’t even remember all the creditors. Thanks, Alison:
    ◾The creditor and/or debt collectors name.
    ◾The date the letter was drafted.
    ◾Your name.
    ◾Your account number.
    ◾Outstanding balance owed on the account (this is sometimes missing and is not a deal breaker).
    ◾Amount that is being agreed to as settlement and satisfaction of the debt (less than the full amount owed).
    ◾Date your payments must be received by in order to have met the settlement agreement.
    ◾The settlement letter must reference that the account being satisfied in full i.e. “settled”, “settlement of this account”, “accepted as settlement in full”, “paid in full”.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Do you mean you paid the settlements you made 5 years ago?

      Did you do the negotiating and reach the agreements yourself, or did you hire someone?

      • Faith says

        Hi there Michael..(you are so great in your efforts);

        Yes, we hired a lawyer to take care of our debt settlement. And all is supposedly completed and finalized. Nothing was given to us in writing – nothing. But, we did correspond with the banks at times on 3 way calls so I know they were legitimate calls. Like with Capital One or some other major large banking corp or minor. But, bottom line, no paperwork from our lawyer was sent over to us to show us that the work was done and finalized. She is asking for more $$ for the retaining fee of debt settlement procedure with her being the lawyer. Which in certain cases, they didn’t even carry out the job correctly; I got on the phone with the Credit Card company – lets say Citibank and I negotiated the fee, when the lawyer did nothing. Thanks for your input. Best regards, Faith..

        • Michael Bovee says

          Any settlements you have a hand in negotiating from her, get the details spelled out in writing on the creditor/collector/attorney collector letterhead, or record the negotiations – letting them know you are recording and why – and keep in a safe place.

          As for past settlements done through the debt settlement attorney you hired, when were they completed? Do those accounts show resolved on your credit reports? Look there first and post what you see. I will have more feedback then.

  88. Cheryl says

    I had a credit card through JCPenney. When I looked at one of my bills, I noticed some purchases that had not been authorized by me. When I contacted JCPenney, they looked into the matter and sent me a letter stating that the fraudulent charges had been removed from my account. My account number was then changed for my safety. I then became very behind on payments. I was contacted by Howard Schiff and have had 3 scheduled mediations with their lawyers. At the first meeting, I pulled out my fraud letter which was a big shock to the lawyer. The mediator asked that we try to work this out and meet in court 3 months later. I was also asked to call one of their attornies and, after trying several times and basically being refused a phone call to him by his secretaries, I gave up on that. Over a year went by and we met again. Well, the lawyer didn’t show up. We scheduled another mediation a month later, and again the lawyer did not show up. The mediator and I did, however, speak with the lawyer over the phone and he wanted me to fill out the affidavit of fraud form. I had received several of those over the past year and refuse to fill them out due to the fact that JCPenney had cleared that amount (still unknown) from my account. The mediator advised me to complete the fraud affidavit and provide the debt collector with yet another letter of the fraud from JCPenney. Shouldn’t the lawyer already have that info from JCPenney? This case will go to trial. Do you think I should fill out that paperwork? Thanks.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Based on what you shared, the fraud paperwork would only help your position.

      Given the fact that you are already in the courts with this, you should run all of this by an attorney with debt defense experience. Post the name of a large city near you. I will email contact details to any I find.

      • Cheryl says

        Rochester, NH, Dover, NH, and Portsmouth, NH, are all nearby cities. Unfortunately, I have had to deal with this entirely on my own as I cannot afford an attorney. Needless to say, I appreciate any advice and recommendations you can offer to me. Thank you.

        • Michael Bovee says

          I sent you an email with contact info to a couple of attorneys I found with the experience you need.

          • Cheryl says

            Hi. I was going to contact one of the people whose information you sent me but then I received a letter in the mail on Monday stating the plaintiff had dismissed the case. Thank you for your help.

  89. Michelle says

    Hi Michael,

    I am in over my head with online payday loans. I live in Louisiana. I initally took out the loans to help financially and began paying them back timely. Crisis hit and I was not able to pay them back in the amounts requested. I contacted the companies and they gave me terms that I could not afford and the funds are not available. The companies still ran the amounts on my bank account thus creating more debt for me since the funds were not available. I have tried to contact the companies to offer payments that are affordable and on a different bank account. Although they stated they cant refuse a payment, what im offering is not good enough and my account will eventually be sent to collections. I dont know how to resolve this issue. I dont want to run from my responsibilities and pay my deby but I need them to work with me. HELP!

    • Michael Bovee says

      Is it just payday loans you are struggling to repay, or are there other unsecured debts too? What are the totals for all debts?

      • Michelle says

        Hi michael. I have 5 payday loans. I owe check into cash $355.27, advance America $270.10, moneykey $385.00, cash net $210.00 and ace $300.00. I also have one personal loan that I’ve fallen behind on. That balance is $2300.00

        • Michael Bovee says

          Michelle – Post all that you have going on with these payday loans, your state, the amount you can afford to pay, other debts you have etc., over on this page about payday loans. You will likely get more than just my feedback that way.

  90. Ben says

    Hi Michael,

    I negotiated a settlement offer with Allegiance bank for my Lowes Credit Card Account; however, they will not send me a settlement letter with the agreed amount/terms until all of the settlement amount has been paid. Is this a wise move with these collectors?

    Thank you!

    • Michael Bovee says

      If you cannot get a written settlement agreement, get everything outlined verbally and record the call, or calls. Tell them you are recording and why. Keep all recordings in a safe place, and make sure you have proof of all timely payments accessible too. Keep good notes about the time and date of all calls, who you spoke with, the number you called into and/or were transferred to.

      If additional collection efforts, or inaccurate credit reporting were to occur later, you will use the recordings and other proofs in a complaint with your state regulator, the CFPB, and perhaps elsewhere.

      It is wise to resolve debts when you can afford to. And wiser still to have some method to prove you took care of your debt if the bank or collector later makes a mistake.

      • Ben says

        Thank you for the response! Do you recommend paying over the phone or sending in a cashier’s check through certified mail once the verbal agreement has been recorded?

        Thanks again,

        • Michael Bovee says

          Allegiance banks is a Texas regional bank? I wonder if you could walk into a branch and pay over the counter and get a receipt?

  91. Arie says

    I called Hunt and Henriques to settle a debt with a lump sum payment. We agreed that after I received the settlement letter I would pay them with a post office money order next day express mail. The letter I received says I agreed to a payment arrangement and the date they are expecting my payment by. It says nothing about the amount we agreed to or that the debt would be settled upon payment. The letter is even titled next payment due. I know I need the right letter before I send the payment. Do you know this companies reputation?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Hunt and Henriques is hit and miss in my experience. The experience you just outlined is a big miss. In this instance, I would call and get the letter reissued. I would also record the call and tell them you are doing so, and why.

      Is the deal you negotiated a good one?
      Who is Hunt and Henriques collecting for?

      • Arie says

        They are collecting on behalf of citibank. Not only did I not owe the money but they got a default judgment and upon bad advice I didn’t file to have the judgment vacated. I successfully stopped a wage garnishment by hunt and henriques a year ago and my finances have not increased since then. If I tell them I am recording the call can they hang up on me? I got an ok deal but not great. I learned yesterday that 5 people got let go from my job a couple days ago. Can I use that info to try to get a better settlement?

        • Michael Bovee says

          I suppose they could hang up on you, but if you handle it correctly, they shouldn’t. Let me know if they do.

          On the judgment. How much money are we talking about here? was it an attorney that told you not to attempt to vacate? Is Citibank Hunt and Henriques client, or was if a debt buyer like Unifund,or someone else? How long ago was the judgment entered? Are you in California like the attorneys? Would you like to talk to an attorney with a lot of experience vacating these debt collection judgments (no matter the age)?

          • Arie says

            Yes I am in California. The judgment was entered in 2010. Yes it is citibank. Yes it was an attorney that told me about the vacate. Basically the debt is for less than 5k and I emailed and called several attorneys that I looked up who said the debt is so low just pay it or they only do debt over 10k and one said that I only had a year to get it vacated so the odds were low. I was unemployed and when I finally got a job I had federal student loans that were on hardship forbearance that needed to be paid so I got the wage garnishment stopped. I would love any help I can get. I’ve been trying to get this over with for years.

            • Michael Bovee says

              There are attorneys that have success vacating judgments older than a year. If you talk to someone who does not specialize in debt collection issues, or who has not had experience reaching further than a plain reading of their states law, such as in California, they may have the impression that 1 year is a limitation, but it isn’t necessarily.

              I sent you an attorney firm to consult with (they offer free initial consult), that has experience vacating judgments new and old. You have to weigh the costs of taking this route and compare that to what you are able to settle the debt for, time factors, vacating is not a gimme, where settlement puts an end to it etc.

              • Arie says

                Hi. I apologize but could you resend me the info on that attorney? I received the actual settlement letter from hunt & henriques and sent the payment next day express on the 8th of this month. A couple days ago I checked and not only have they not filed a satisfaction of judgment but the filed a writ of execution. I want to send them a letter of demand to file satisfaction and release liens but I read online I should file an ex parte motion to squash the writ and potentially a motion to compel satisfaction of judgment.

  92. Vicki says

    I am SO glad to have this site!
    My gosh thank you so much for trying to help people without sticking it to them.

    Midland Funding LLC has filed a summons in civil action
    against me for a Citibank credit card (actually it was a Home Depot card sponsored by Citibank)

    To this point, we have reached a verbal settlement amount (on 6/30/14)
    (from the help of your site)
    I told them I need the settlement letter.
    Of course they wanted me to post them a payment right then.
    (Just like you said)
    I agreed to pay them in one lump sum
    and I will pay them over $700 on a $1200 balance.
    I told them I cannot do a thing until I get that settlement letter.

    It is July 12th now
    and I still have not received their settlement agreement .
    I have called them twice to see where it is at and they keep
    telling me to give it more time.
    (I am really worried because the clock is ticking
    …I had the 28 days to serve a written answer to the plaintiffs attorney
    (Which is apparently a lawyers office in Ohio)
    Kimberly Klemenok in Westlake Ohio.
    And then 3 days after that, I needed to file a copy of “that answer”
    with the clerk of courts.

    I feel like they are trying to get me to wait long enough
    so it looks like to the courts, I never
    answered them.

    On my recent talk with them they did say
    they would fax it if I don’t get the written by Monday July 14th.

    (again I am so grateful for your help…you’ll be in my prayers for months!) :)

    1. IF I receive the settlement letter from Midland (fax or mail)
    what do I do about documenting that with the court?
    Should I mail them an explanation and send receipts of the settlement letter and
    my payment?
    2 Can I just mail that to the Clerk of Courts office AND
    that attorney that is on the summons? or do I have to go into the courthouse?
    (I am partially disabled so I hope I can mail – our courthouse is a pain in the neck
    to get to) :(

    I just want to make sure the judgment isn’t honored and who ever needs to
    know that I’ve fixed this – knows.

    3. Should I just call the attorney that is listed on the summons and deal with them?

    I just don’t know what to do from here.
    With my health, I am so limited on getting around. I can – but it isn’t easy.
    Also, this all has me a nervous wreck.
    I tried to get this fixed before it went this route but
    its like the people who call from these collections agencies don’t get it
    that you are broke. :(

    (one more thing, I plan to pay them using one of those
    prepaid credit cards you can buy at stores. I don’t want to give
    them my information from my bank or my debit card that I use all the time
    as I am afraid they will go in there AFTER the debt is paid or take more
    than agreed upon. I’ve been screwed over by these companies in the past
    when trying to do the right thing – so is the prepaid debit/credit card okay?
    Or should I trust them by giving them my routing number and bank account number?
    Or use another debit card that I have?

    I wish you knew how appreciated this is.
    God bless you, Vicki

    • Michael Bovee says

      If you have the written settlement agreement from Midland Funding, and the payment you negotiated was made on time, you can expect the attorney for Midland to handle things with the court, but look for this aspect to be spelled out fairly clearly in the agreement you are waiting for.

      There should not be a judgment entered at all. If there is already a scheduled date for you to appear in court (does not sound like it from what you shared), I would encourage you to still show for it. Not that anyone is trying to pull one over on you, but I have seen enough mistakes happen on collection files, and even at the late stage you are in, to just suggest you follow through, than try to unwind other peoples mistakes.

      You can call the attorney for Midland, but since tomorrow is the day you call and ask for the negotiated agreement to be faxed to you, which means you have the deal in your hands without mail delay, I would see how that works out first.

      Use your bank account or the other debt card attached to your bank account that you have. I typically advise setting up a set aside account for remitting payments you negotiate and settle, but you may not have time to do that. Using your own accounts gives you anytime access to proof you paid. You want that. And while I understand the reasons for your hesitation, if the agreement says you pay a certain amount by a certain day, if any more money were taken than what is outlined, you can file complaints with the CFPB (which legitimate debt collectors do not want), or it may even be possible to sue the debt collector.

      Post an update with how this all pans out.

      • Vicki says

        Bless your heart – thank you so much.

        I did receive the settlement letter in the mail today and will pay them the amount tomorrow.
        Whew – glad THAT is over.
        I’m sure you have some kind of jewel on the other side! LOL
        To help people like this .. have a great week. Vicki

  93. NS says

    Hi Michael.
    I had an unpaid T- Mobile bill of $205.00 few years ago. It was sold to Midland Funding. I started to get calls from them. On one of those calls, we worked out a deal with them. The deal was I would have to pay only $145. And I think it was in 3 settlements. ( was long time ago). I paid the first $62. And that was it, I couldn’t pay anything at that time. I didn’t notify Midland of that. About 2 months ago, I paid my bill in full to T-Mobile. I faxed the paperwork to TransUnion so that they can fix it on my report, but they said I’d have to fax it to Midland. Do you think if I fax the paid bill to Midland it would be easy for them to communicate that info to TransUnion? Will they give me a hard time about it? Do I have to pay anything to Midland?
    Thank you,

    • Michael Bovee says

      I do not think they would give you a hard time about it. I would call Midland and talk to them about all that transpired first, rather than facing them blind.

      What is it you have to fax to them?

      No, you should not have to pay anything more than you already have (if I understood your comment correctly).

    • NS says

      Michael, I have to fax them the paid bill that I got from T – Mobile as proof that I in fact paid the bill in full. TransUnion told me to fax it to Midland agency since TransUnion gets their info from Midland

  94. Bob Ruffdan says

    Hello Michael,
    I accidentally stumbled on your site and want to first thank you for all the people you have helped by providing free advice on this site. You are a good man because as you know, these stress from these type of debt issues effects the physical & mental health of a person. So here’s my situation and questions. In 2007, I quit the Corp world and became a 1099 wage earner trying to earn a living my being an entrepreneur. Many of the startup companies I worked with went out of business and I was forced again and again to start over trying to build my income back up. In early 2011 I went completely broke and I stopped making payments to Capitol One on two different credit cards . Each card had about a $10,000 balance. I stopped making these payments about 3 years ago and had a judgement placed on me for just one of the cards by a law firm in NYC as I never bothered to go to court. This judgement was probably about a year ago or more. I finally started to make money again in middle of 2012 and than tragedy struck. In November 2012, I was in a horrific accident that almost killed and I spent the last 19 recovering which included multiple surgeries, physical rehab, and too many medical problems to list. Five months ago I applied for Social Security Disability and thank God I was approved last. Because I was a 1099 employee, I had no workers compensation, so my only income now is a monthly check for $2,235. I also received a retroactive check for $23,000 for the months I first became disabled. Besides the two credit card companies, I had to move out rental and break a lease and owe $6,000 to that rental company. Plus a few misc items for a total of about $28,000. So here are my questions and I can not begin to thank you enough for any advice you are about to give me. I was told that Social security disability is not garnishable from unsecured debt like the Capital One card. Because there is a judgment on me on one card for a total of $11,500, does that make it secured debt? I want to call up the attorneys in NYC and try to clear up not only the card with the judgment, but the other card as well with the creditors. I know that bankruptcy is an option, and in my neck of the woods, the cost for hiring a bankruptcy attorney is $1,700 to $2,000 which is a lot cheaper than paying off the creditors. Knowing that I can prove to the creditors that I am disabled and will not work again, what would be a reasonable amount to offer this Attorney’s who have the judgement on me? I would like to offer them $1,500 and also make the same offer for the the other card that had no judgment. Same with the rental company. My budget is $6,000 for $28,000 in debt. It actually must be quite higher due to interest and penalties. I would feel better paying $6,000, than paying $2,000 for a bankruptcy. When I call the attorney’s in NYC, I will let them know I am disabled and can no longer work. Is it realistic that they will accept my $1,500 offer knowing I am now disabled which I can easily prove my sending them my letter of approval?f Does it make sense to tell them that if theydo not accept this offer, my only option is bankruptcy? I also owe the IRS about $50,000 but they know my situation and have put me in non collectable status. And my last question which you may or may not know is this. I still have not deposited the $23,000 check because of fear of having the money garnished. I was told disability can not be garnished for unsecured debt as long as I setup an account with no money going in but direct deposit from the government. The reason I received a paper check for the back payments is I didn’t have a bank account at the time because I was literally penniless. I recently turned my car lease in and was not able to make the last three payment so that is another issue that will go to collections. My credit is so bad that I don’t care about my credit score anymore. I am just thankful to be alive. I want to sleep at night knowing my money will not be garnished as long as I get the one card with the judgment taken care of. Also, do you know if in fact I can deposit that large check into a bank without having to worry about it being garnished? Going forward, everything will be direct deposit. Sorry for the long post, but the suffering I have gone through in mind, body & spirit these past 19 months has been a tortuous existence and the stress of being broke and owing so much money to creditors and IRS has taking it’s toll on my health and recovery from my accident.
    God Bless and Stay healthy. Bob

    • Michael Bovee says

      Bob – You are awesome for getting this far! Here is the rub on the debts:

      File chapter 7 bankruptcy. At least that is what I would do. Capital One is not going to settle with you as low as you need them to. Even if they did, the math supports chapter 7, not negotiating settlements. And when you add the fact that IRS debts can be discharged in a chapter 7 if the tax years involved, timing of returns being filed, and your inability to pay meet certain requirements, BK is even more the option to look to.

      Check out this post about exemptions from judgment collection: – I think I answered New York exemptions in the comments, but if not, post a question related to New York in the comments of that page and I will post a complete response for you and other readers too.

  95. Breanna says

    I sent NFCU a settlement offer letter stating that I would pay them $1400 to settle the $4600 debt that my husband accrued prior to our union. We the original letter and the settlement agreement contract signed by an authorized representative of NFCU that accepted the terms I proposed. My only question is, they marked out where I stipulated that the payment would only be paid if they agreed to report the account as “Paid in Full” and they wrote in “Settled.” In the settlement agreement where the authorized representative signed, they wrote, “(reporting as settled) will still release you from all obligations to pay the remaining amount.” My goal in this settlement is to repair my husband’s credit, not to get out of paying the debt. Will accepting this offer and making the payment with the amended settlement agreement help his score at all? Or will it only make the account show a “0” balance, but still report as “Settled” on his credit reports? I would like to have the trade line deleted from his report all-together. Is this even a possibility?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Whether you get his credit report to show paid in full, or settle with a zero balance, you are getting this deal done because the accounts went into some type of delinquency. The account will show many months late, and even that it is charged off by NFCU on his credit reports. That negative reporting is here to stay for 7 to 7.5 years. There is really no legitimate way to get accurate, complete, and current information off your credit reports.

      Getting NFCU to update the account as paid is often all you need, so whether settled for less, or paid in full, the zero balance update is the trigger you want for credit purposes.

  96. salama says

    Hi, i’ve been trying to find out if in the process of debt collection, original creditors owe a duty to debtor to give some sort of reminders either through phone calls or mails before forwarding the matter to the debt collection agencies. i also read about writing a letter within 30 days disputing a debt claim. i was just wondering how one can prove his disputes, does he need a lawyer? or can he deal directly with the collection agency to prove his disputes

    • Michael Bovee says

      What are your disputes?
      For how long did you miss payments to your creditors before you started hearing from debt collectors?

  97. Tim says

    I received a collections letter from General Revenue Corp back in May stating that I owed a debt $2765.75 from a university that I had attended. Long story short – I had no idea I owed the money to the university. My ex-wife handled all our finances throughout our marriage. During our divorce, she hid several bills from me (so she couldn’t be held liable for our actual debt)…one of which was the bill for the university. Upon getting the letter from GRC, I contacted the university to validate the bill. They had explained to me that the bill had been sent off to collections (GRC) and there was nothing more the university could do for me, directly, to settle the debt. Post divorce has left me in great financial difficulty and I am diligently trying to settle all my debts and get back on the right track. However, this unforeseen collections debt has thrown me quite a curve ball. Therefore, I responded to GRC’s letter in writing with a settlement proposal. I offered to pay a lump-sum payment of 60% of the balance due ($1659.49) within 30 days upon receipt of a signed approval of the proposal and the agreement to have the account listed as “paid in full” to all credit reporting agencies. I sent this letter to GRC on June 26, 2014. To this day, Aug. 2, 2014, I have not heard back from GRC. I have not even received any phone calls…however, I did mention in my letter that any further correspondence must be in writing. Is it typical for a slow response from collection agencies when attempting to negotiate a settlement? I am worried that they are going to just disregard my offer and attempt to sue me. At this time, I have not contacted a lawyer over the matter for obvious reasons…I simply can’t afford it. Do I need to allow GRC more time to review my offer? Should I send them a second letter? I hate just sitting here feeling helpless when all I want to do is put this behind me.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Depending on how your letter was worded, you may never hear back from them. Too many of these letters are interpreted as a cease communication letter by collection companies. Now that more than 5 weeks has gone by you may want to call and follow up on this. Is there a reason you wrote to them as opposed to calling?

      What type of student loan was this?

      • Tim says

        Mr. Bovee,

        In my letter to GRC, I made it pretty clear that I was open to communication via “in writing” regarding the negotiations.

        As for the debt in question…the debt is not an actual “student loan”. It is an actual bill from the university, itself. I had registered for classes to attend a fall semester and was all set to go. Just prior to the start of the semester, everything blew up with my marriage/divorce. Therefore, I was unable to attend class. I needed to focus all of my attention on the the divorce. So, I had dropped out of my classes prior to the start of the semester…before the “drop/add” date…in which, there was not supposed to be any penalty. My goal was to attend the following spring semester once the divorce was settled and could then focus on attending classes. All of my student loans that were granted for that semester had been returned to their respective lenders. However, despite having dropped all of my classes prior to the penalty date, the university still charged me for a full semester. Their claim was that I did not sign an official “withdraw from the university” form. I did not know I needed to do this being that it was my intention to attend classes the following semester and I was never told otherwise. I was under the impression that withdrawing from the classes (not the university, itself) was sufficient. Then, of course, with my ex-wife withholding the bills from the university from me during the divorce process…I never knew I had been charged for that semester until the bill was sent on to collections.

        My reasoning for the letter instead of calling is mainly due to having dealt with a collection agency several years ago. I had a bill I regrettably let slip and I took full responsibility for my error. I called the agency once I receive a notice from them in the mail. Despite my willingness to pay what I had owed – they were unwilling to work with me. I can’t remember how much the bill was at that time but it was something just over $2000. I could not afford to pay off the bill in a lump sum to settle immediately nor could I afford to make the monthly payments they wanted to charge me for a pay-off within 12 months at a higher balance (this included the $2000+ initial balance, plus a high interest rate, and a high collection fee). I told them what I could afford monthly with hopes of some sort of compromise. They wanted no part of it. They continued to bully me, pressing hard for their pay-off plan, and threatened to sue me if I did not comply with their offer. I didn’t know what else to do. I couldn’t afford a lawyer so I eventually caved in just to get them off my back. I had to sell off some personal items and borrow money from family in order to pay it off. A very bad experience, to say the least. One I would like to never go through again. Another reason for writing the letter versus calling is that I prefer to have everything in writing (as I stated in my letter to them) as documented proof.

        • Michael Bovee says

          I wish I could offer some other feedback about conducting this type of thing in writing only. Yes, you can get done what you need to, and use only non verbal communication. But it is rare these days. And your wait time for a response suggests to me that your attempt at correspondence has hit a policy snag.

          Letters do not often reach the collections floor type personnel for response. They reach the legal department.

          If it were me, I would call at this point. You could send a second letter too.

  98. EO says

    I am on the quest of wanting to pay off my debts that I owe. I have been doing a ton of research on where exactly to start or how to start the process. I have some other accounts that I paid in full and the still affect my credit since they were late. My question to you is what is the first thing that I should do before contacting the companies. I do not want to settle all of them I want to pay off in full all of the smaller ones and settle 1 large one that I have for $4,000. Everything else is below $600 so I will pay those all in full. But what are the first steps I should take when I contact them should I request anything by mail or fax stating that I am paying in full or should I send them something stating my intentions to pay them in full?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Post a comment with the following details and I can better offer feedback:

      Who account is with?
      When account was last paid?
      Balance owed as of today?

  99. Roger says

    I received an Agreement to Compromise Debt letter from a collection agency relative to a few old medical bills totaling $6K. All of the bullet points mentioned in your piece are contained in the letter notably “full and complete payment for all outstanding charges”. My concern is this agreement can still be used to lower my credit rating so is there any benefit in settling? Although the Agency claims, once paid in full, they will communicate with the credit bureaus and have any references removed. Please note that the debt is considered time-barred so they they have no legal recourse in collecting it.

    • Michael Bovee says

      How old is the debt? Look on your credit reports for the date the collections are scheduled to drop from your credit.

      It is not common to get a written agreement to delete collections from credit reports. If they do not follow through, but you do, you have different actions you can take.

  100. Joseph says


    I have a Credit Card that was charged off nearly 5 years ago. This Visa account was picked up by a 3rd party collection agency who sent me a thorough debt validation letter about 8 months ago. The account now after interest is around 6,500 dollars and the collector told me the original creditor would not accept anything less than the original 3,600 in principal. Unfortunately I made payments for about 6 months around 2 years ago which probably reset the statue of limitations. Would this be a good settlement if I could get a deal in writing? Your suggestions are appreciated.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Post the name of the original creditor and debt collector you are dealing with and I would be better able to reply with a different target to aim for in negotiating the debt.

      Generally speaking, a good settlement is one you can afford. No sense leaving money on the table though.

      • Joseph says

        The OC is Eastman Credit Union and the 3rd party collector is CU Recovery. The card was opened in TN and I currently live in MI. They seem pretty reputable for a CA but the only thing I question is that this account has been handled by CU for years and don’t OC’s usually take accounts back after a few months of unsuccessful attempts?

        • Michael Bovee says

          That is a pretty good offer from a credit union. I typically target 50% negotiated settlements with smaller local and regional credit unions like yours. The bigger ones can go lower on some accounts, some of the time. It is not impossible to get lower deals, but they are fewer and further between these days, compared to policies just a couple years ago.

          Large national credit card issuers tend to do contingency collections with an agency every 3 to 6 months, like you refer to. Credit unions do not have the volume to churn, and may use assignment collections with more longevity built in to the relationships.

          • Joseph says

            Thank you Michael. Also after I receive a debt settlement letter would a debit card be a safe method of payment provided I open a separate checking account specifically for collections? It seems like I would be able to print and save proper documentation of the transaction from the banks website.

            • Michael Bovee says

              That is precisely the process I encourage most for making payments on settlements – using a special account set up just for this purpose. Keep copies of settlement agreements and print out payment proofs in anticipation of needing them, and keep them in a safe place.

  101. Faith says

    “That is precisely the process I encourage most for making payments on settlements – using a special account set up just for this purpose. Keep copies of settlement agreements and print out payment proofs in anticipation of needing them, and keep them in a safe place.”.

    Question: what happens if a debt settlement lawyer on your behalf doesn’t do what your recommendations are: (i.e. letters of settlement, agreed payment, etc.)? Thanks so much for your continued support

  102. Pete says

    Thanks for your help with theinformation you provide. I live in Tn, where I was sued on behalf of MBNA over a credit card debt. The judgement and lien filed against is 19k. I have heard nothing for 7 years, since judgement filed in 2007. Last week I began to recieve mail that a new law firm took over case, and among others I recieved a list in interrogatories from lawyer repping Sacor Financial. I called Sacor, and made a offer of $3500 to settle acct. BTW, my only income is SSI Disability, and disabilty income from a private insurance policy I had thru my employer. I permanently disabled in a 2002 auto accident, which is what started my financial problems. I also have heart disease, and had open heart surgery last year, and now have a aortic aneurysm, pending surgery. Im 46 y/o male. Anyway, sorry, when I made the offer, the man at Sacor, said he would have to submit a hardship letter, and he would need my SSID award letter, AND a most recent bank statement. This judgement is against me alone, and my bank account is joint with wife, and she says NO WAY to bank statements. I agree. The Sacor rep asked where the 3500 was coming from, I explained that my mother was lending a large portion of it, which is true. I think this is why he asked for statements. If I tell him NO to the bank statement, I fear the talks will tank. SACOR claims with interest and penalties, my orig. 19k judgment is now over 30k. I HAVE NEVER, heard from anyone in reference to this debt since 2007, when prior to the judgement, I tried very hard to work a settlement with them. I actually offered 9k, 50% payment in one sum, back then, and was told no. We have no other income, other than my disabilty, and other than my home, have no assets, other than a 1500 dollar old truck, and our furniture. The bank accounts he wants statements to have way too much personal info, as I pay everything with that acct. Sorry for the long post. Thank you again.

    • Michael Bovee says

      If you are uncollectable you have time on your side. The home you own may be what they are thinking they will get paid from at some point, as Tennessee does not have great exemptions there. How much do you owe on the home if any? Is there a judgment lien filed with the county? What would you estimate your equity position to be?

      Tennessee has a combined 10k judgment creditor exemption that can wrap the value of a car, household goods, and a bank account together. I am with you regarding not sharing bank statements. If for some reason that is something you decide to do in order to clear settlement hurdle, think about how they would look at your statements and the wild card judgment creditor exemptions before you do.

      Settlements at the rate you are asking for are rare, and the judgment in place would make success rarer still. That said, when I do see that much of a reduction negotiated, it is with long term fixed income and health situations. Who was the named plaintiff and attorney collection firm originally? Who is the collection attorney firm now?

  103. Abby says

    Hi Michael,
    I live in Texas and have a charged off account that is now with Cache and is represented by Joe Pezzuto Attorney. I sent them a letter asking for a verification letter and one year later they finally sent it to me. From my past experience, I asked if I could have the settlement in writing, but they refused. They said that I will get a letter once I pay it off. That’s one of the main reason why I requested a verification of my account because this agency was giving me a red flag. What other measures can I take? Have you heard any “success” story from this agency?

    • Michael Bovee says

      There are many success stories settling with the Joe Pezzuto law firm.

      If they will not send the letter outlining what you negotiated, and they agreed to, call them back and record it. Start the call by telling them you are recording and why. Go over all the pertinent details of the agreement. Save the recording along with the written agreement they later send to you.

      Once you are done, and get the letter from them in the mail, post an update here.

      • Abby says

        What happens if they use the scare tactic? If I call, would I now be under radar and I’m afraid they won’t take my settlement offer and will make me pay for the full amount (which I can’t afford right now). What would happen next?

        • Michael Bovee says

          I read your first comment to mean you spoke with a collector at Pezzuto’s office recently. Did you speak to a debt collector at that office prior to sending your debt validation letter? Was that conversation what causes concern with calling now, or was it a conversation with a different debt collector (not that most of them are not abrupt and a bit pushy)?

          What is the amount of the debt now?
          When was it you last made a payment on this account?

          • Abby says

            So basically, i have had 4 charge off accounts. The three of the agencies that I have worked with were particularly nice and never had a problem. Now, with the Joe Pezzuto’s office I was expecting the same thing. I wanted to make monthly payments, but they were so rude to me. They said they don’t do monthly payments and that it was an attorney’s office. I was so shocked and didn’t know what to do so I told them I would call back. So the same lady I talked to said she can lower the settlement, but it was for that day only. I told her I would call her back because I was still new at this. This happen probably around last November of 2013. I wanted to pay for it, but then I asked if I could have it it writing and she said no and that I can only receive it once I paid the debt. Then I thought that was odd because the other agencies were very nice about sending me agreements and I didn’t think it was a problem to ask. Therefore, I didn’t like the way the agency was handling things so I mailed them a letter saying I wanted my debt to be validated and then I just received it yesterday. I admit I am afraid to call them. They are the epitome of what you would think of as a collecting agency. My debt with them is currently around $1600 (give or take). And my last payment to this account with the original lender was in 3/2012. Since the call of November 2013…I haven’t talked to them. I just wanted to ask you for advice so I can prepare myself when I do make the call (which will probably be in a couple of days).

            • Michael Bovee says

              Okay, thanks for the back story.

              I would suggest having at least 50% of the balance at the ready before you call to negotiate. You may end up a bit higher if your credit reports are updated to show all of the other collections are now paid, or if you look more collectable for other reasons.

              You will go about negotiating the same way you did the other accounts. You now know you may need thicker skin to negotiated with Joe Pezzuto’s collection crew. They are going to try to collect the most, but you will want to wear them down with comments like “I cannot possibly afford that”, or “a payment plan when I live pay check to pay check is not something I can commit to”.

              You do not have to get the deal done in one phone call. It is okay to hang up with the debt collector, letting them know you will make a few calls and see if you can pull together some additional money, or something like that.

              When it comes time to tell them you need something in writing – if they are just not going to release the letter – let them know you are going to record the important details of what you are agreeing to, and then record.

              Please do post an update as you make progress. I may be able to offer some additional feedback along the way. I especially want to know about the difficulty in getting documentation.

              • Abby says

                One more thing….I’m afraid on top of them not sending me the letter and that they will make me pay right on the spot with a debit card. Is this a normal procedure? I’m just remembering from my last encounter with these people and she said that I had to pay that day or else she is taking the offer off the table. I just want to have like a proof of a check or cashier’s check being sent to them. I guess my bank statement can also be proof as well?

                • Michael Bovee says

                  Abby – You would benefit from some coaching to complete your settlements. Call in and consult with a specialist about that at 800-939-8357. The consult is free, and the coaching is very affordable if you want one on one support.

                  Let me know what you decide to do after that, and I can continue to offer feedback here in the comments.

  104. Alison says

    Hi there..Michael..great work and thanks for the support – nothing beats its.
    We did all our settlements via phone with a lawyer ‘supposedly assisting us’. However, this lawyer did nothing to get any documentation. We may ‘owe’ $$ depending on the pre-negotiating agreement of the legal fees, but in return – we got nothing..not a letter, not a write off amount paid in full. Bottom-line, nothing. Everything – all about, everything, 6 credit cards have been paid off in full without any documentation as you suggest and highly recommend. Also, I even had to play a role and settle some of one of my accounts because the lawyer or his assistant was not taking a role in negotiation. Any suggestions? thanks much, Faith

    • Michael Bovee says

      Have you looked at your credit reports to see if the accounts that were settled are showing that fact? Are you see debt collectors reporting with balances still owed that you know are not?

      Was the debt settlement attorney service you signed on with part of a nationwide sales and servicing effort, or was this a local attorney you worked with? If part of a national service, sometimes the settlement work is done by non attorneys in offices not related to the attorney directly. The documentation may be stored in a CMS that you can get your hands on still.

      Post about what you find on your credit reports for the settled accounts in question and lets go from there.

  105. Emily says

    Dear Michael,

    Thank you very much for your incredibly informative website, and for all the help you give to consumers. I live in Virginia and had a Judgment of $20,200 entered in a hearing which I attended/contested on July 24, 2014. I subsequently filed a timely appeal in the General District Court in order to buy time to continue to pursue my credit identity theft/credit fraud concerns. The credit card was through Bank of America (BoA), and the last payment of $500 was made in August 2012 (after spending hours on your site learning I realize that I shouldn’t have made this payment in response to letters/calls from BoA). BoA/FIA Card Serivices charged off the account one month later on September 29, 2014. Portfolio Recovery Associates (PRA) now has the debt and brought the suit through the Virginia Law Firm of Glasser & Glasser. In preparing to defend my claim under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), I contacted BoA directly and asked them for the original signed credit application from March 2004 and for the monthly statements, so I would be able to see where all the charges came from. BoA responded by sending a copy of the online application made with my personal information (i.e. SSN, DOB, my Mother’s Maiden Name etc…) but with no signature to prove that I applied for the card. In a separate form letter from BoA, also including the disclaimer that this was “the best documentation possible” BoA enclosed copies of the monthly statements from November 2011 forward, but none from 2004-2011. So I called BoA again, got referred to the Fraud Unit, and again asked for copies of the monthly statements from 2004-2011 generally, but more specifically, for any statement that contained Balance Transfers (BT) onto the card, since I never made a balance transfer onto this card, or onto any other credit card. I learned of the BTs when I reviewed line-by-line the copies of the post-2011 statements BoA sent. However, by 2011, the BT(s) were already made, and I need to know:
    1) Is it my right under the FCRA to have copies of ALL the statements, especially those that show a BT since more than half of the judgment stems from one or more BTs?
    2) Do I have a right (under FCRA) to demand that any further collection efforts under the Judgment be stalled until BoA provides the relevant documentation (statements from 2004-2011). When I made this request in the General District Court, the Judge said that “he didn’t have a copy of the FCRA on his bench – and asked me if I had one with me?” I didn’t have a copy with me, since I read it on the FTC’s Identity Theft website when I filed an Identity Theft Affadavit. So the Judge and then ruled in favor of PRA.
    Thank you so much for any information or assistance you can provide.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Your questions are best answered by an experienced debt collections defense consumer law attorney in your state. Post the name of a nearby city and I will email you contact information to any I know of that are closest.

      I am not aware of anything that entitles you to all of your credit card statements from the beginning of your account. If something like that can be pushed for in your case, it would most likely not pertain to a right found in the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

      You will want to talk with that attorney about your options to stall any collections, or to address the judgment that appears to have been entered against you. There are options, and some are limited by time, so do not waste any consulting with an experienced attorney of your own.

      • Emily says

        Dear Michael,

        Thank you for your response–I live in Vienna, Virginia right outside Washington DC. I look forward to hearing the names of experienced debt collections defense consumer law attorneys in my area.

        You may be interested to learn that when I filed a fraud alert with the 3 Credit Bureaus, their acknowledgment letters stated that, under the FCRA, “You have the right to obtain documents relating to the fraudulent transactions made or accounts opened using your personal information. A creditor or other business must give you copied of applications and other business records relating to transactions and accounts that resulted from the theft of your identity, if you ask for them in writing. ” Having read this information from Experian, I asserted my right with BoA, and informed the General District Court Judge of BoA’s failure to provide me with this information.

        Thank you again for your continuing assistance.

        • Michael Bovee says

          I sent you an email with contact details to 4 experienced consumer collection law attorneys in your area. All of them are likely to offer a no cost initial consultation.

          Please do post updates with how you progress.

  106. Alvin says

    I am about to close on refinancing my house and discovered a lien on it via a debt collection company that represents Capital One. I called and negotiated a settlement of $6,588.00, but never told them I was refinancing. They sent me a settlement offer letter via fax, with terms and agreement with the stated amount. However, today they’ve stated that the letter is null and void because they can see where the title company has done a search and they now want the full amount of $10,000. My question to you is: is the settlement letter a legal and binding document? If I make the payment before the due date that we agreed on, do they have to honor it? I have a strong feeling that it is, because during the conversation this morning with the collector, when I stated that this is a binding document and he legally has to take the money that we initially agreed upon, he got extremely quiet for about ten seconds and hung the phone up. Can you give me quick advice, since I’ll need to make payment by Friday. Thanks!

    • Michael Bovee says

      This type of thing would have to ultimately be decided by the court. And if there are similar cases that have been decided in your state already, you could use the outcome of those prior scenarios to help you make this decision.

      What state are you in?

        • Michael Bovee says

          I would want to run this by an attorney of your own, with what you have pending.

          I sent you an email with three different attorneys who know collections and settlements in Louisiana front to back. Call one of them and ask for some feedback.

          • Alvin says

            Thanks for your help with my issue. I walked into their office on Friday, which was Couch, Colville, & Britt, LLC. I had the settlement letter in hand, along with a cerified check, which stated $6,588.00 on a $10,116.64 balance. They tried to argue with me on that the settlement offer was void and that I owed the total amount, since I didn’t relate to them that I was refinancing my house. It was obvious they wanted more money once they knew I was refinancing. However, when I mentioned I would contact the licensing board, along with Consumer Protection, they immediately took the check and released the lien on my house. I’m sure my settlement letter would have stood up in any court. I now have a settlement in full letter, along with a satisfaction of judgement letter. I close on my loan tomorrow. Thanks!

  107. marc says

    please help a debt recovery agency has contacted me about a settlement and I told them what I could afford and so on they said they would phone back which they did and told me that it had been agreed and now they have phoned me stating that they made a mistake and in fact it was not agreed it had been rejected is there anything I can do about this ?? if they made the mistake shorly they hav to honer the agreement ??

    • Michael Bovee says

      Who is the collection agency? Who are they collecting for? How long ago was it that you last paid on the debt? What state are you in? What was the amount you offered as settlement, and what is the total amount they say you owe?

      Those answers will help me to better answer what to consider next.

  108. Brittany says

    Hi Michael,
    My name is Brittany. I have two medical bills that went into collections 11/2013. I just found out about them when I checked my credit about 6 months ago. I have been going back and forth with the debt collector CAC Financial. I finally got them to tell me who the original creditor was so that I could get the name of the doctor’s. I was trying to see if the doctor’s would refile the claims to my new insurance (medicaid). The debt collectors did send me a letter 8/29/14 saying I owed the debt and to respond within 30 days. I sent a letter 9/11/2014 after speaking with a representative who said I needed to pay the whole debt by 9/22/2014 in order to get the accounts deleted from my credit reports. I wanted it in writing so I sent them a letter saying that I would pay based upon the conversation with the representative along with a written letter from them stating the agreement. I just received a letter on Saturday (past the 22nd) saying I am disputing the debt and that they will notify the credit bureau that I am doing so. I called the representative again and at first she said there was no record of the conversation agreement and that they do not send out written agreements. Then she said there was a note saying they would delete in by the 22nd but the 22nd had past. I told her Ii didn’t pay it because I was waiting on their written agreement to me. I am not sure how to continue. I want to pay the debt, but I want to actually have proof that I am paying it and proof that they are agreeing to what they say. How should I proceed? These are medical bills. I am still trying to see if Ii can get the doctor’s to refile the claims in the meantime, but if that doesn’t work I would like to know your advice. I am in the state of Florida.
    Also does it hurt people’s credit to have accounts in collections for a long time? Or does time not matter?

    • Clydesmom says

      First: the provider cannot file Medicaid retro-actively. If you did not have Medicaid at the time of the claim then that care is not covered. The second reason they cannot file is because even if you did have Medicaid there is a time limit to file the claim and once that expires the government won’t pay. That time limit is 180 days so you missed it by several months.

      The older the debt the less it hurts on your credit reports. If the provider or the collection agency will not send a written agreement that does not prevent you from drawing up your own. You simply include all the terms such as they agree to delete the trade lines from all 3 credit reports within 14 business days of being paid and you agree to pay via money order within 14 business days of receiving their signed settlement agreement back. You enclose 2 signed copies of it and ask that they return one.

      Keep in mind you cannot force a provider to do PFD. Some will not no matter what. If you choose not to pay them without PFD the debt will remain on your credit reports until 2020 and it is possible that they could still sue you as most statute of limitations on this kind of debt is at least 4 years.

  109. Tiffany says

    My only question now that I have settled with CareCredit (yuk lol) is how does a settlement affect my credit score? And let me just say this was a hassle I literally had to stop making payments and let it almost get charged off before they were willing to do anything. The lady told me that I inquired about settlement a few times and because I was in good standing they couldn’t do anything but I know my income and expenses were changing and didn’t want delinquent on my account but I had to take the hit just to get them to work with me. I mean when I paid early it never counted towards the future payment which I thought it did so that was one problem. I always got hit with a late fee even if I was a day late. I got my account caught up through tax season but then was told I had to make another payment within weeks. But anyway all has been resolved and just waiting on the letter to come to me. Which they tried to say will take 72 hours but I stated that because they wanted to money and needed the money before the 200 day charge off then I would assume that they would send the letter to me before then as well. The specialist was very helpful and went and asked the lady if she could get it out today. But the customer service people at Carecredit are horrible I was literally on hold for 20.03 seconds until I put them on hold and called back. Word of advice to anyone STAY AWAY FROM CARE CREDIT!!!! if you need medical procedure just work it out with the physician office.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Is the Care Credit account you are settling the only collection, or negative item on your credit reports?
      How many other open and positive accounts do you have reporting today?
      What are your credit scores as of today (without the settlement having updated to them yet)?

  110. MJ says

    Hi Michael,
    I have been searching online looking for an answer regarding credit card debts and debt collector since hiring a lawyer is very impossible for me to get with the high cost of consultation fees. Anyway I hope you can help me with my problem. I have 3 accounts with MCM and I asked them validate the debt which they did. Knowing that the cost of the 3 accounts will total almost $2,500 and I can’t afford to make a full payment so I sent them a settlement letter that I can only afford to pay a certain amount on those account. Its been awhile but I havent recieve any reply from them. What should I do?

    Please help and Im looking forward to hear from you

    Thank you


  111. Amy says

    Hi Michael,
    I have an outstanding $1,500.00 balance at a large retail store. A third party collection agency contacted me by mail and phone. I agreed to make 6 pre-dated check payments that would cover about $500.00. I feel so stupid. They now have my checking account number. I asked how much my payments will be after the six months and they said they couldn’t tell me. They didn’t know. I know it’s a real collection agency but I’m freaking out that I will have to pay outrageous fees and waaaay more than I owe. What should I do? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

    • Michael Bovee says

      How long has it been since your original creditor payments stopped?
      What is the name of the collection agency?
      How much could you pull together quickly in order to settle for less than what you owe, as opposed to making monthly payments?
      What is the date for the first payment to be drafted from your bank?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Saw this post after the one I just replied with. I will have better feedback once I know the answers to the other questions.

  112. Amy says

    The date of the first check is the 20th of this month. I last paid the original in July. Should I stop payment on checks? I have nothing on paper from them about this agreement. I have no lump sum to pull together. They won’t tell me how much I’m going to pay all together I spoke to them only after they called me almost hourly during work. Its really concerning.thanks.

  113. Angeline says

    Hi Michael, I have an 8 year old title loan debt and I recently called the title loan company to ask for a settlement offer. The clerk looked up my account and said she would discuss it with her supervisor and call me back. She called back and said her supervisor said she would agree to a $500 settlement to give me my title back (I was told my original $500 loan was now $1900 with interest). I agreed and asked if I could get that mailed to me in writing as I’m living in another state and can not walk in to trade the $500 for my title. The clerk told me No, she doesn’t know anything about sending letters in writing and they don’t have any form like that. She would only give me her supervisor’s first name and no number because she said it was her job to settle with me after her supervisor made the offer. My question is what should I do now? I want my title back and I know I’m dealing with a shady company!

  114. KS says

    I recently (and unsuccessfully) tried to settle a debt with Midland Credit Management (MCM). This company had already sued and successfully garnished my wages for another account (these are the only collection accounts I’ve had). This garnishment will end with my next paycheck.

    I have repeatedly written the company, requesting debt validation, with no response. In August I sent them a letter via certified/registered mail, agreeing to pay the settlement account (offered by them), if they agreed to remove all information around the debt from my credit report (essentially a pay-for-delete). They refused.

    I crossed my fingers and sent them another letter, this time including a money order for the requested settlement amount, stating the following:

    “Upon receipt of this correspondence and payment, please verify in writing that this debt has been reported to the major credit bureaus as “disputed” by myself, the consumer. In addition, please return a copy of the enclosed Agreement to Compromise Debt, signed by an authorized agent of your company.”

    Yesterday I received a letter, with my returned check, stating “please be advised that MCM does not accept the conditions set forth in your recent correspondence, therefore I am returning your cashier’s check.”

    I am concerned about a few things. The first being that they will just sue me again. I am also concerned that they will come after me for more money after I’ve paid the agreed-upon amount. In the settlement offer they sent, it says on the one hand that upon receiving payment, they will consider the account paid, then they state that the account may still be reported as unpaid on my credit report.

    I am trying to resolve this last debt and start to rebuild my credit, and I don’t want to fall into limbo with this company. I am not sure what my next steps should be.

    • Michael Bovee says

      You are making unrealistic conditions on settling with Midland Credit. Why have you gone about your efforts the way that you have? Was it something you read about?

      Midland Credit Management will update your credit report with any new information after you meet the agreement. It can take 30 days, and I recommend waiting 60 days to check your credit reports. If they do not follow through, you dispute it with your proof. But they are generally pretty good about it.

      Midland will not try to get you to pay more or sell off the unpaid portion to another debt collector.

      1. Midland Credit Management is a debt collector under the same umbrella of companies like debt buyer Midland Funding, and their parent Encore Capital Group. They, and companies like them, are currently under the highest amount of regulatory scrutiny they ever have been.

      2. Midland is not generally a reseller of debt.

      If something were to happen with your file after the settlement, it would either be a mistake, and easily fixed, or the result of something weird happening to your file because of these validations and accord and satisfaction, or restricted endorsements you have tried.

  115. Gladys says

    Hello Micheal Bovee.
    I appologise for the caps,didnt realze it was locked.But i need your advise on this matter asap.if this letter is good or not wored as we had requested last friday

    • Michael Bovee says

      The wording you shared is fairly standard. What is the name of the debt collector you are settling with?

      What is it you meant in your comment about requesting last Friday?

  116. Gladys says

    Micheal Bovee
    First American Acceptance Co
    Law Office Hayt,Hayt & Landau,LLC
    My husband requesed that the letter stae be satisfied paid in full,and we thought we receive a letter worded a different way.we just want to know how that is going to be reported to the IRS. we dont know if the firat american acceptance co. is a debtit buyer because it was a wachovia /wellsfargo credit card

    • Michael Bovee says

      First American Acceptance CO is a debt buyer.

      Paid in full compared to full satisfaction is roughly the same thing. It protects you from someone later saying there is still a portion that is collectable.

      Creditors and debt owners should be notifying the IRS about any forgiven debt that exceeds 600 hundred dollars. But I know they do not always do that, and certainly the following January after the settlement is paid.

  117. Gladys says

    hello micheal
    They want settlement payment as of thursday.Does that mean that the remaining balance will reported as income with a 1099c

  118. Thomas says

    I am writing on behalf of my daughter, who received a phone call from Regional Acquistion out of New York yesterday afternoon. After using all the normal threats these types of representatives are trained to use, my daughter, who has never encountered the likes and scared beyond reason of “losing everything’, gave her debit card information to settle a $1900 Best Buy credit card account for $768. I am very proud of my daughter, who is in recovery; clean 2.5 years, and is now in school full-time and working part-time. However, she can not afford to pay a lump-sum of $768, but was scared and too naive to know she had options. My concern is to the legitmacy of Regional Acquistion. Are you familiar with this company, who claimed to be hired by Best Buy to collect a charged off account? Does my daughter have any recourse, or furthermore protection, since she did not have a settlement letter in hand prior to paying the settlement amount over the phone? Can she now sign an affadavit with her bank to dispute the charge, so that she can work out a payment plan? By the way, she was told by the Regional Acquistion rep that a payment plan could not be worked out at this point due to the amount of time the account was in default and that court papers were to be filed within 24 hours, followed immediately by a judgement to freeze her assets. I cannot stand that this company took advantage of a naive young woman, who used part of a student loan to pay off this debt and placed herself in a financial situation she has fought hard to overcome, not to mention the threat to her recovery because i huge part of it is making it on her own. I’m just sick over it all. Please help her and know any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

    • Thomas says

      An additional note, my daughter did receive a confirmation number and case number and was told she would be receiving something stating the account had been paid in full by mail.

    • Michael Bovee says

      I would do whatever is necessary to stop that payment. Debt collectors that threaten lawsuits and asset freezes inside of 24 hours are liars a scams, or extremely poorly trained.

      See what she can do to get the payment backed out. If she runs into trouble, post an update.

      Have her look on her credit report to see what is showing for that old Best Buy account, and any collection agencies reporting it now. Post those details and I can help her identify some options from there.

  119. Charlie says

    Hello, it looks like you guys are very helpful with this stuff, I’m hoping you can help me too. I’m trying to have a debt settled with an account I had cosigned on with dish network. They set a debt of 186 to Rpm collections. I have been working with dish, and they assure me that if I pay the debt I will receive a ‘zero balance letter’ via email. I feel like putting this at a zero balance doesn’t necessarily mean it will be removed from my credit report. They refuse to send me any letter stating that they will remove it from my credit report, which is really all I want. Do you have any advice on what I can do here?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Creditors and debt collectors that are reporting valid and completely correct information on your credit reports are not obligated to delete that from your credit reports in return for payment or settlement. It is not common that any will.

      Dish Network would have to report the account as paid, because that is accurate information once you follow through with that. But its not like they are doing you any favors by updating the credit reports with the truth. They are obligated to do it.

      You could hold your ground with demanding the credit report deletion, but you may be standing there a while.
      You could pay, wait to see what they update the account with, and send a good will letter requesting they cease reporting.
      You could make sure Dish shows up as paid on your credit, and not sweat it much from there.

      If Dish is the only negative on your report, amongst many positive and pays on time entries, it will not be much of a smudge after little while, and some scoring models now no longer factor paid collection in the score.

  120. Carol says

    Hi Michael,
    First of all – great website. I have learned a lot from just reading the posts. My question is about a judgment. I have a judgment from 2009. The original creditor was Washington Mutual but Arrow Financial Systems LLC is the one who sued me and got a judgment for 3871.38 before fees, interest, etc. I had no money and no job so the multiple times they tried to enforce the judgment was in vain. I guess they just gave up. In June 2011 apparently the debt was sold to Jefferson Capital Systems. I never received anything regarding this sale just started receiving letters from another collection agency stating they were collecting for Jefferson Capital Systems LLC. The last letter I received from the attorney that handled the lawsuit and judgment stated I owed $6947.86 as of January 5 2011. Most recently I have been receiving letters from Mercantile Adjustment Bureau trying to collect the debt. They are showing I owe the original amount of $3871.36 and offer a 50% settlement of $1935.69. I would like to counter offer 30% and will go up to 40%. My issue is since the debt has been sold and no longer owned by the original creditor, I am unsure that Jefferson Capital LLC or Mercantile Adjustment Bureau are aware that this is a judgment. My feeling is that it was purchased as a part of a large portfolio of debt. How do I go about getting a satisfaction of judgment without waking the dog so to speak?

    • Michael Bovee says

      They will be aware that your account is a judgment. You can settle judgments, and the older and longer without any payment, the better, as is the case here. But be ready for 50% if need be, while negotiating for your target amounts.

      Demand the satisfaction filing with the court as part of your agreement, and get that written in.

      In the end, as long as you have documentation of the agreements and payments, you can also file with the court, and even a complaint with the bar about someones half ass law practice not updating the court appropriately as an officer of said court. I am not trying to make any of that sound complicated, because it isn’t, and you can get local legal help.

      • Carol says

        Thanks for the help. I think I will offer 30% first and see if they bite. I will let you know what happens.

  121. Michael Fant says

    Dear Michael,
    I am a real estate agent that is working with a client to sell their house. During the title search phase of the sale a lien was found on the house. The lien holder was contacted and after a very difficult negotiation an amount was reached. My client wired the money to the lien holder Resurgent Mortgage, but did not get a settlement letter before the money was sent. I have spoken to a person, the supervisor, at Resurgent Mortgage and they said the account has been paid in full, but they have to mail us a copy of the settlement letter.
    We asked them to fax a copy of the settlement letter. They said any other letter would have to be approved by their legal department. They said that this was in the works and that it would be sent several days ago. When my client called to see if there legal department had sent their approved letter the supervisor said that they have sent the settlement letter as certified mail.
    The people at this company have lied so much that we do not know what to do. Do you have any suggestions?

  122. Michael Fant says

    No, the letter was sent out 11/4/2014, They received payment 10/28/2014, they acknowledged the payment 10/30/2014

  123. Michael Fant says

    11/7/2014 we got a copy of a settlement letter with the wrong address and some other persons name on the letter. I sent a copy of the letter, copy of email correspondence and a copy of a phone call made of the lien holder’s representative to the president of the company. I cc the representative. In the conversation the representative admits that they have been paid, but cannot give a time when the lien letter will be sent. The company corrected the settlement letter but still will not issue a release of lien. We are going to file a complaint with the BBB and the Department of Consumer Affairs. Can you suggest any other action.

    • Michael Bovee says

      You can file complaints against Resurgent Mortgage with the BBB and the CFPB as well. But I have to think there is an existing reasonableness standard for follow through filings of this nature in your state.

      Have you talked this scenario over with a long standing title agent? Perhaps they have seen a reasonableness standard that would apply to your issue.

  124. Linda says

    Hello Michael,
    My husband and I had a mom and pop business, it was very seasonal and often times we would get behind on bills and then play catch up in the summer when the business would pick up. In the 18yrs of business our home went into foreclosure 3 times then bu summer I would get it out. Needless to say some accounts could not be caught up if I was getting home out of foreclosure that came first. We had one company that was unreasonable working with us The name was Direct Merchants,I had a master card thru them and used it often to pay bills for the business such as yellow page ads etc. about 2003 when we were behind on our $14,000 credit card payment I advised the credit card company I could send the original monthly payment but could not catch the full amount and late fees up until the other debts were taken care of. (our House) They insisted on the full payment owed rightly to them. I do not ague that fact I was behind but again advised them I could not come up with that amount and I sent them what I could equal to 3 months payments but no late fees included. They returned my check and was demanding the account be paid in full. I had to laugh….but in reality I cried… I could not even pay the original payment they had wanted to bring my account up current and now they want the full 14 grand. What rock do they think i will find this under? They had to know they were not the only ones we were behind with all they had to do was look at our credit score…It was horrible.We couldn’t go to a bank to get a loan. They began harassing me by phone to the point I would no longer answer the phone and that hurt our business. In the midst of all this my husband the only person working the business suffered a stroke. He worked 2 jobs our business and was also a paid volunteer fire fighter. We found from him having the stroke and all the tests they ran to try to figure out why a man 51 yr old would have a stroke that young that he needing a Heart valve replacement. Which we had known nothing about a heart valve problem. In 2005 some company filed a judgement pr lien in another name other than direct merchant. I had no idea who they were butt my attitude was pick a number. You aren’t the only one wanting money. We still received calls some how they had found out my cell number and were now calling that number also. any Message left did not say who they were calling for like Direct Merchants only they were a debt collector and it as important they talk to me. I had 4 or 5 of these messages a day. And half the time the full number was not even left. They would start talking before the recording started or recording stopped before they left the full number. I also received mailings and I will be honest I lost track of everyone we were behind so much of the time. I was put on anti-depressants. It did not help I could not answer my phones. We shut down our business and were fortunate enough to be hired on with a local hospital. We now got our house payment caught up and kept in good standing for 6 yrs. We needed to do some major home improvements both decks are falling apart. and I had fallen thru the back deck. So I decided to check into a refinance and borrow on our equity to replace the decks, upgrade our heating to gas, install new carpets for the carpets are over 25 yrs old and possibly pave our driveway. Nothing foolish. Well all was going fantastic we were getting a loan the interest rate was a locked in one at 2.5 and we were paying 10.75 on a variable loan on our house because it had been in foreclosure so we were ecstatic. Our credit report was almost squeaky clean no mention of judgments which I had totally forgotten about and then when it came to the things that would be paid off at closing it had an amount of 64,000.00 we were borrowing 50 grand for the remodel but no mention of that and when I asked the lender what the 64 grand was for he said it was for a Bennett Law Firm that had a Lien on the title. I had no idea who the heck this was but the brakes were put on till I could find out. I also received a letter from Bennett law about this same time so there must be something that tells them when a client they have a lien on is trying to get a loan. I sent a requesting letter to the law firm on what this acct was for. I was not aware of owing anyone this much money and found out that they represented Galaxy Portfolio who represented someone else that represented Direct Merchants Bank. The original bill for 14 grand. I obtained a lawyer that cost over 13 grand and I am still paying on the account and he was only able to negotiate the fee down to $40,045.90. We then went back to the finance company and started the refinance over we paid the 3 liens (2 small ones and Bennett Law Firms) that were on our home and we were not able to borrow money to do any repairs in our home. My back deck is literally condemned. Once we pay the lawyer off we will work on saving to repair the back deck.
    My question to you is how can a company charge that amount with out sending some kind of a monthly statement advising me how how the interest was getting. We had not received any mail on the accts for years. and why would it not show up on our credit reports even the credit report the lender had on us shows nothing of the liens. We were even ale to get an auto loan in 2012 and nothing was mentioned at that time. I do not understand how a 14 thousand dollar bill can turn into over 70 thousand which was the last statement my lawyer received urging us to accept the offer to pay the 40 some grnad. No one earned that amount of money trying to collect it. I was thinking more in the range of 20 grand then when I looked into other things I found that Bennett Law had been taken to court and had to pay back money to residences in Virginia. Not sure why but my question is do I have anything to stand on to dispute this fee they charged. What type of action can I take if any. Again I never disputed owing the original amount. My dispute is never being advised monthly of the increasing amount and that it had not shown on our credit report. If it had we could have done something much sooner instead of it getting so out of hand.
    Respectfully Linda

    • Michael Bovee says

      Thank you for sharing your story Linda. I do have some feedback and suggestions to offer you, but first, what state are you in?

        • Michael Bovee says

          I want you to contact the attorney in Spokane I am sending you an email about. It does not matter if you are on the other side of the mountains. Kirk handles cases across Washington. He offers no cost initial consults. Run your entire scenario by him. Ask him what your legitimate options are to pursue anything this far down the line.

  125. Michael Fant says

    Dear Michael,
    We were finally able to get Resurgent to produce a letter that was acceptable. We submitted complaints to the BBB, South Carolina Department Consumer Protection, The Consumer Protection bureau. I also sent an email to the executive officers of the company. What we found is the collectors did not understand what a release of lien means. We were finally able to get someone who had some understanding. Resurgent did not seem to have all of the lien information found on the title in their data files. With the letter they produced my client can sue them if they do not release the lien in 90 days. Thank you for your help

    • Michael Bovee says

      Excellent! Sometimes it is those complaints that reach higher up the executive ladder that get the right eyeballs on completely resolvable issues. The CFPB complaint portal has proven particularly useful for businesses and consumers alike.

  126. KG says

    Dear Michael,

    I live in the state of New York and had a medical procedure done in May 2012. I received an anesthesiology bill for $1750 that I thought would be covered by my insurance, and I spent lots and lots of time trying to work this out over the phone with the insurance company and the doctor’s office, but was repeatedly denied by the insurance. After many months of arguing, I started receiving correspondence from collections agencies last Summer. In September 2014, I spoke with the collections agency over the phone – I was very foolish, and regrettably had not researched enough about these situations and did not know my rights. I received threats of being sued. I was also told that they were led to believe that my insurance company had mailed me a reimbursement check for my claim that I’d never sent to the doctor’s office, and said I could be sued for insurance fraud if I didn’t work that out. I was horrified, as I’d never received a check or any indication that a claim was approved, and feared it was lost in the mail. I called my insurance company and was told that this was incorrect information and a check was never sent to me.

    While on the phone with the debt collector, I unfortunately made a verbal agreement to make four payments of $437.50 every 30 days to pay my debt in full. I am very embarrassed to say that I did not request this agreement in writing before making payments (with debit and credit cards.) The only proof I have of making these payments is on my bank statements.

    My father, whose insurance plan I was covered on during the time I had the medical treatment, recently spoke with an official for the insurance network through his work. It was confirmed that the doctor’s office had been sending the bills to the wrong location for the insurance company, which is why the insurance was not paying the bill in the first place. They said they’re willing to work with me to submit a new claim and cut a reimbursement check even though years have passed.

    My final debt payment is due on January 14th. I spoke with the debt collector today to confirm the final due date and ask for a copy of our agreement in writing, which they, of course refused. I explained my insurance situation calmly, and reminded them that I am working with the insurance company, as I have every intention to ensure that the debt is paid, and the insurance company will likely be willing to split the check between the debtors for the amount I still owe, and to me for what I have already paid. Of course, they don’t care about this and just want me to pay and work it out with the insurance afterwards. The billing person for the doctor’s office is on vacation this week , so I have no hope of having a claim processed before my payment due date. I also requested receipts for the payments I have already made from the debt collector, and they refused as well. They claim they will put in a request for receipts, but that at this point, they say they do not have any obligation to send me a copy of our payment agreement in writing, and will not send me one until I make my final payment, at which point they will send me documentation in the mail that the debt has been settled.

    Is it true that there is no obligation to send me a copy of written agreement once I have already started paying? Do I have no leverage in witholding payment until I receive a written agreement and/or receipts now that I’ve begun paying and made a verbal agreement on a recorded call? I have lot of regret for not doing further research and requesting this beforehand, but I was naive and let them scare me with the idea of being sued. My greatest fear is that they’ll never send me any proof of payments or agreement once I’ve made my payments, and I’ll never be able to get a reimbursement from the insurance company. I am unsure if the record in my bank statements will be enough.

    Thank you.

    • Michael Bovee says

      It is rather amazing that one of the most complained about industries in the history of this country has generally been allowed to get away with not sending out billing statements, or been required to provide itemized accounting upon request. But debt collectors have, for the most part, been able to get away with providing little to no documentation for… it seems like ever.

      There are a couple of states that have passed laws that now require some form of accounting and agreement letters. New York is one with very good new debt collector documentation laws set to take affect in a couple of months. And I believe the CFPB, who is currently fully involved in rule making for the debt collection industry, is developing a better documentation requirement for debt collectors nationally.

      If it were me, I would either withhold the payment, and let this run its course now that you identified the problem, or pay it if I were highly confident I was going to be reimbursed. If the debt collector raises any objections about your withholding payment, tell them to take it up with the company that placed the account with them. If the collector is overly pushy, file a thorough collection complaint with all of the above details (and any you may have left out)with the CFPB here.

      • KG says


        Thank you so much for your quick and generous response. Does this mean that, at this time, the company can claim they’ll send me proof of payment after I pay all that they want, but if they never send it, there’s no way to force them to, legally, and they can get away with never sending it?

        If I withhold payment while trying to get a reimbursement, can they sue me based on our recorded, verbal agreement to pay by January 14th? I’m afraid that the last payment is the only leverage I have left, though they’ve refused to speak with the company that placed the account with them about encouraging them to send the new claim to the insurance company so they can get paid.

        Thank you again for your help.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Yes, it pretty much means that. Unless there is a state law that requires they send you your payment agreement in writing, and accounting of payments/charges/fees, or the requirement to send you something showing you completed all payments and the account is resolved… you are left with filing complaints at the state and federal level. You could of course sue them, but that could easily be cost prohibitive.

          You filing your complaint with the CFPB will be sent along to someone at the collection agency who cares about what they receive from regulators, and not the typical debt collector dialing for dollars. I believe you will get the help you need from the complaint process, and I also know that this is the best time to send in debt collection complaints to the agency, and perhaps medical debt even more so, because of where they are at with deb collection rule making.

          • KG says

            Thank you, Michael!

            Do you believe it would be worthwhile for me to file a complaint with the CFPB with the angle of demanding receipts of payment and proof of paid debt? I am confident I can be reimbursed in full after paying in full if I have those documents. I’m concerned I have very little leverage in witholding payment at this point in the process due to the mistakes I have made.

  127. HJ says

    I recently negotiated a 35% deal with Chase. I was at 199 days late, and about to charge off the next day, Dec. 31. I came here an read everything, then called. I beat around the bush with a flunky from Allied LLC, but they didn’t have the authority, so I told them I’d call back the next day (31st) and try again.
    The next day I called, but no one was there! Being New Year’s eve, everyone at Allied was gone. Exasperated, I googled for an Alternative Chase telephone number (their main exchange always forwarded me to their henchmen, Allied LLC.) This time I got thru, and had to explain my case, and by being persistent, was moved up two levels of management. I finally spoke with someone in authority, and we quickly were able to get a settlement nailed down. Allied wasn’t going to go for less than half, or at least that was my impression, and I was prepared for that. However, by dealing directly with Chase,
    I was able to drag my feet, and finally admitted I could do 30% with the help of family. She quickly replied that she couldn’t do this, but that we were close. When she came back with a number that I quickly calculated to be 35% of the outstanding, I was pleased, but told her it would take a week or more for me to get. She then offered a 4payment, 3 month installment, with a nominal amount immediately required. This satisfied me, as I didn’t need to commit a large sum before receiving my settlement letter, which came a few days later. Thank you very much for a wonderful website. If my situation was more complex, I definitely would have retained your services. Particularly helpful was/is your forum where up-to-date policies of Banks and collectors is shared and disseminated. That is what gave me the most confidence in the negotiation. Because Chase always uses Allied LLC in communicating with late customers (after about 60-90 day for me), I found this difficult. If Allied LLC is closed for a holiday, then it is possible to contact Chase directly, and get better results. Something to keep in mind, hope it helps someone.

    • Michael Bovee says

      I am really glad you were able to work all of that out with Chase at the last minute HJ, and thanks much for sharing how you resolved the account.

  128. Jack says

    Negotiating with Law firm-debt collector out of Ga on cc debt from major cc company. Law firm agrees to settlement verbally that includes repair of credit and then never sends letter and refuses to return calls. Finally, we call major cc company to get them to intervene and law firm sends the letter but it now just says for the amount they will be “settled” and they will “dismiss” the pending law suit.

    If we wanted to go for paying off entirely and get it put right with credit agencies, do we need a new settlement letter and what jeopardy does that put one in when we only have a week left on the letter in hand?

    Would it be better to get it settled and then at some subsequent time go directly to the creditor and pay the difference in exchange for changed credit reporting? If so, how long would you wait before doing so, and will the cc company just continue to refer us to the law firm for further resolution? And what EXACT designation would we seek from the cc company / attorney in exchange for the full payout??

    The issue is a complete lack of trust with the law firm-debt collector as they reneged on their original promise but, as you say, it wasn’t in writing yet. But isn’t is against the law for them to agree verbally on a recorded line and then subsequently refuse to put it into the letter?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Can you offer more details about what is reporting wrong on your credit reports, or what it is you are seeking from them to adjust the reporting to?

      Also, who is the creditor you are dealing with?

      I can better respond to your questions with that information.

      • Jack says

        its more about what they will report under “settlement” as settled versus something better, whatever that would be and what to ask for. And, how much more I’d have to pay to get that better result, like get it completely deleted, or show as just paid and eliminate the chargeoff and collection references there now. under tight time frame as lawsuit has been served and i have the offer but have to go ahead and accept. cc is discover.

        do i have to pay it all to get something better than settled?
        is it better to pay the settled thing now and then wait ( and how long to wait) to go back to discover and negotiate the removal vs dealing with the law firm-debt collection?

        • Michael Bovee says

          In your situation, the law firm that is working for Discover has zero influence on what Discover will show on your credit reports. And Discover is not going to change anything about charge off, 30 day late pays, etc. That goes for whether you pay less or in full, and whether you pay now, or offer the difference between the settlement amount and the remaining balance later on.

          Accepting the settlement now, if it includes the dismissal language on the settlement letter, means you avoid further credit reporting damage because you will be preventing a judgment from appearing on the public record section of your credit reports.

          You can expect that Discover will update the information they share with the credit bureaus so that your account shows a zero balance. Whether it got there from paying less than the balance owed, and therefore shows settled/paid less, or you paid the full amount, there is little difference to your credit reports, as the damage is from the charge off, which is going to stay on there for 7 years.

          • Jack says

            Thanks so much, been at this for awhile now and your voice is the absolute clearest on these issues. Everyone else speculates and tries to convince us that you can do better than settlement but i like your ideas regarding fixing the new credit instead…ie adding authorized user, etc.. Yes, there is dismissal language too.

  129. ALANB says

    Hi Micheal, my mortgage company wants me to pay off a collection from midland funding llc before the underwriting process and get a letter stating it was paid in full. I need this asap im closing in 18 days but what if they don’t send me a letter after paying the account in full?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Midland is generally pretty good about sending letters and documentation of payments and agreements. Just call Midland Funding, let them know you would like to remit full payment for the balance owed, and would like a letter that explains any agreement you make with them before hand and/or a letter that speaks to the debt being resolved after the fact.

      It is normal for it to take longer than the 18 days you have for your credit reports to update as paid. But the letters and proof of payment will usually get you passed the goal line with the underwriter.

  130. John Vincent says


    I negotiated a $6500 deal for a credit card debt of $10,250 last Friday. I was being sued for the money. I asked they send me a settlement letter first that showed the debt was “paid in full”. The collector said they would send a letter, but that it would say “Negotiated Settlement”. Should I push for certain verbiage in the letter? Thank you!!

    • Michael Bovee says

      There is little to no benefit to negotiating for paid in full or settled/paid less in your agreements. The end result is the same. You get your credit reports updated to show there is no longer any balance owed. The credit damage from the account charging off is done once debts reach this point.

      Did this account reach judgment? If not, I would be far more concerned with making sure any court action is dismissed or the lawsuit dropped as a result of my settlement. Is there anything in there about that?

  131. Mayette says

    Hi Sir Michael,
    I live in florida and i received a Motion for Final Judgment by default. So I hired an attorney to settle an agreement for my Student Loan. From $24,000 that debt collector was asking from me, my attorney got it lower down for $10,000 but unfortunately it was a verbal settlement. It has been 2 weeks and we have not received the written settlement yet. I am worried why its taking a while for them to send the written agreement. What should i do?. I asked my attorney and he told me he left them a couple of voicemail already and no one has called him back yet. I just want to resolve this problem because i can’t concentrate in school anymore. Can the plaintiff changed their mind regarding the verbal agreement? Thank you so much in advance.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Sure they can. The agreement has not progressed past a conversation at this point. Continue to follow up every few days is what I would do, escalating the request to supervisors and managers in some cases.

      Did you pay your attorney fees already, or are they tied to the settlement getting funded?

        • Michael Bovee says

          He should not mind taking your anxious calls about getting this closed out.
          It is not unusual for things like this to not move at the pace we would like, but it is also okay to be nervous about this taking too long too.

          Post an update if you have not gotten this all sealed up in the next couple weeks.

  132. Abbey says

    Hi Michael,
    Thank you for your phenomenal forum here! Very educational. I received a verbal agreement to settle a debt yesterday for 60% of the original debt. Originally $5000. It was a tuition bill. They agreed to a “hardship settlement” of 3000. I am hoping to improve my credit as best as possible, so am hoping to negotiate the best credit reporting outcome. However, I do not understand all the various ways they can write this on my credit report. In my negotiating with them I believe I should understand this continuum. From best to worst for me would be as follows: removed from credit, paid in full, paid as agreed. Is this correct?

    Additionally, if I get verbal confirmation and am recording the phone conversation, and cannot get written confirmation should I go through with the agreement. A credit adviser told me that these collection agencies are very resistant sometimes to sending a written confirmation. I would imagine they might be especially resistant to sending a written confirmation saying they will remove the debt from my account. Is it legal to agree to remove a debt from your account for a settlement less than the original amount? If so, why would a collection agency not agree to it?

    Thank you,

    • Michael Bovee says

      How does student loan appear on your credit reports now? When was it you last made a payment on it?

      You should do what you can to get the details in writing. One way I know people have used to do that that is to tell them you are borrowing most of the money from a family member, and the only way they will give you the money – so you can pay them – is if you have a letter in hand outlining the deal, and that the payment resolves the debt.

      Record the call yourself if they do not release a letter. Tell them you are recording and why.

      Getting collectors to delete, or do anything other than update the collection on your credit report as resolved and a zero balance due, is not something I see in writing all that much. It can happen, and is more than likely to be something you hear verbally. It is not illegal for them to remove it per say, but it is not a common practice, as it could impair the furnisher/credit bureau relationship. Your payment is not worth that to most creditors and collectors.

      • Abbey says

        Thank you very much!!!

        It appears on my Equifax credit report as follows “Creditor Classification: Educational….Status D – Unpaid….Date of First Delinquency: 10/2011.” I’m not sure how to tell what the last payment on it was. I send a previous debt collection agency (in Cali) a payment of 4,000, however for some reason they did not accept it. And sent it back and said when we spoke on the phone that they never received my check, but I sent it certified mail, so I know they did. Now a company in NY has been calling me. I think the last time I paid it was in 2011, but it’s quite possible that it was later than that. Is there a way to tell from my equifax report?

        Why should I tell them I am recording the call? I live in New York State, so I don’t have to (right?). What is the benefit to letting them know?

        If I can’t get the debt collection agency to delete it from my report, what’s my next best option in terms of how they report it to the credit bureau? What are the words I should look for in the letter they send me (e.g. “Satisfied in full”)?

        • Michael Bovee says

          I tell people to let collectors know they are recording because I cannot know the state all site readers live in (state law governs whether you can record phone conversations without telling the other party on the line), and also because it should have no impact on getting the deal done.

          There really is no “next best” option for credit reporting. You really would only expect the credit report furnisher to meet their legal obligation to report only accurate, current, and complete information. In this case, that there is a zero balance owed. All the satisfied in full, pays as agreed, settled for less stuff is window dressing when the real negative damage is that your loan went into default, credit card charged off, car got repossessed, etc. In other words, the damage is backwards looking and the fact there is a balance still owed. You can fix the balance owed part. The other stuff is really not all that meaningful.

  133. Lisa says

    I received a summons last week (3-24-15) that I was being sued by Capital One. I received this from attorneys for Capital One and here's the letter I sent them, which explains my situation. I was able to work out a settlement. They approved $1500. I want to make sure they can't come back and sue me for the rest of it and/or receive a judgment on my credit report, which I'd like to eventually repair over time. My credit report currently reads that this Capital One account has been "Charged Off". I don't have the money to hire an attorney, but I don't want to get "screwed" by them either. Here's the letter I sent them and I'll put my question to you in the box below: 


    I was delivered a Summons yesterday on March 24, 2015 regarding my Capital One balance. I do not deny this balance is mine and am very interested in reaching a settlement.

    I never intended to default on my payments to Capital One. The following is a very brief synopsis of my situation; 

    I became very ill in January 2011. I was rushed to the emergency room at (Hospital) unable to breathe and within the hour was sent to the ICU where I was intubated and found to have the H1N1 virus and severe pneumonia in 4 of the 5 lobes of my lungs. I spent 36 days in an induced coma and was not expected to live. In fact, two women in my age group did die of this H1N1 virus in one of the (Hospitals). I received a tracheotomy, was on kidney dialysis, ventilator, feeding tube and much more. My second use of a RotoProne bed ultimately saved my life by giving me the oxygen I needed. 

    I then received physical therapy as my muscles had completely atrophied. I could not move, meaning I had to regain strength to do absolutely everything. To feed myself, to sit up, to walk eventually. Upon finally being released, I had a caregiver and spent all my time in a wheelchair when I wasn’t in bed. 

    Two months later I had so much trouble moving and breathing that I went back to the same hospital and spent 2 more weeks. It was finally determined that my heart was failing by operating at only 20% capacity. I was told the H1N1 virus left me with cardiomyopathy or congestive heart failure. In 2015 I am still under the care of cardiologist, (name of doctor) and take meds for this condition. I am also under the care of a mental health therapist for chronic depression.

    Prior to these events at age 45, I was completely healthy and able to pay my bills. Unfortunately, these life changing events have altered everything. 

    As a result, I receive Medicaid insurance, am unemployed, I do not own a car, nor any real estate. I am not married, have no children, and stay with an older gentleman at the moment.

    I would have paid this balance to Capital One if at all possible. As you can see I did make payments for as long as I could.

    I would like to work out a settlement. I believe I can borrow 'some' money from family and friends to settle this debt. I am not a deadbeat, I have fallen on tough times which was not under my control, but I am willing to pay what I can. 

    I am unsure as to which attorney to address, so I am sending this email message to all the attorneys listed on the Summons I received on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 from Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore. I am also faxing and mailing a copy as well.

    I look forward to speaking with you."

    Thank you so much for any light you can shed on my situation. I'm so thankful for this opportunity you have given me and others during this 'scary' time. Lisa

    Do I need to get this settlement agreement in writing? What do I specifically need it to say to keep from being sued in the future for the remaining balance and/or receiving a judgment on my credit report? Anything else of importance?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Use the outline in the above article an make sure those elements are met in the settlement agreement. If you like, I can look it over for you. Post an update when you get it and lets go from there.

      You are an inspiration Lisa!

    • Michael Bovee says

      I received your email with the attached letter from Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore. The letter they sent in no way resembles an agreement to settle. The letter only references the 1500 dollars as a payment. It is obvious this letter is a template that they use often enough, and they should have one for agreeing to settle a debt too.

      You have a time sensitive issue here, where you need to reply to the lawsuit in order to prevent default judgment. The payment date they gave of April 30th is not the right amount of time to deal with this (filing with the court to prevent default).

      Before I call this what it is on first impression, can you post a reply and tell me what the conversations, letters, and emails with the firm contained as to settling this for less than the balance owed?

  134. Lisa says

    Hi Michael,

    On the phone I told them I could borrow $1500 to settle and they wanted me to do it over the phone. I asked them to send me a letter agreeing this would settle the debt. She said the amount of $1500 does not settle the debt, but she could send me a letter that would show a payment. I only sent them the one email explaining my situation. I’ve only spoken to them on the phone two or three times. The first lady said they could not settle because I’m being sued. The second one was more open to settling after learning of my situation. She had to go to her supervisor to get the $1500 settlement approved.

    I agree this letter they sent me does not show a settlement.

    Also, how do I reply to the lawsuit? I thought I was doing that by writing and calling them. April 13 will be the 20 days I have to reply. I sure don’t want a default judgment.

    Thank you so much for your help.


    • Michael Bovee says

      It sounds like the last collector with Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore that you spoke with gave you the clear impression that you would be settling the debt for that amount, but then documentation wires got crossed, or they meant to deceive you from the beginning. I have a really big problem with bait and switch intent, if that is what it turns out to be.

      I would suggest calling and speaking with the same woman if possible, and speak to the letter referring to a payment only, and not the settlement that was agreed to. See if they will fax you a corrected letter. If you do not have a fax, you can get an efax number in a couple of minutes that will deliver faxes to your email address. I do not want you to wait for mail.

      If they refuse, I believe they were deceitful to begin with. Please do me a favor and peg the date and time of when you spoke with the woman who agreed to settle the account for 1500.00. Also jot down her name, phone number and extension if you have it, as well as notes about what each of you said to one another.

      I would jump on all of this today if possible.

      Answering the complaint in court is much more formal than what you sent in an email or spoke about. You have to file with the court. Your answer can be as simple as denying that the amount alleged as due is inaccurate (not a stretch as the amount sued for will often not resemble the amount you last owed). You should speak to an attorney about how to do that. I know you said you cannot afford one, but try to locate a low income legal aid office that can help you file an answer in order to prevent default judgment.

      But first, post an update with the outcome after speaking with Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore, and let me know if you have been able to jot down the notes with dates and times of prior conversations.

  135. Lisa says

    Great news – I have someone who is going to loan me the full amount I owe. What is my next step? How do I keep a default judgment from happening now? My time is up on Monday, April 13. Also, I now have access to a fax machine.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Call them and let them know you have someone willing to help. They will pay if you get a letter outlining the dismissal. You need it faxed. If they do not send you the letter outlining the dismissal for payment, and were it me, I would file an answer to the complaint denying you owe the amount stated. That will avoid a default judgment and give you the time you need to get everything documented.

      I really do not trust Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore because of the bait and switch I am concerned they were running on you. Even though you will be able to pay this, I would really appreciate it if you could still share the information I asked about in my previous comment. You can email it to me if you like.

  136. Gerald Collins says

    My daughter filed for Bankruptcy. In the process of filing her car loan was given to Consumer Portfolio Services Collection Agency. The car was included in the bankruptcy and my daughter no longer wants it. I called CPS and we reached a verbal settlement agreement. They said the agreement was noted on the account but I have no access to those notes. I secured the funds, then asked them for a written settlement agreement which they refused to provide. When I asked why they told me they don’t do that because of the Bankruptcy and once I sent the funds the title would be released. This sounds very shady and maybe even illegal to me. What should I do?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Get them to send a letter or record the phone call telling them you are and why. Also take notes of the date, time, and person you spoke with.

      Consumer Portfolio Services is no stranger to bad debt collection behavior. They appear to be still working off a prior FTC enforcement action. This obviously means you should be careful dealing with them, but can also mean they would prefer to stay out of trouble.

      If I need the title, I would proceed with recordings etc., and if things did not go as agreed, I would tell them you will look at your legal rights, and file complaints with the CFPB.

      Ask to talk with a supervisor too (maybe even first). Some of the prior issues with Consumer Portfolio Services were apparently based on loose (read terrible) oversight of the collectors.

  137. Leslie says

    Hi Michael, I’ve recently been served with a lawsuit from the attorneys at Midland Funding on 3-26-2015. With this amazing website, I was able to negotiate a settlement of 1900 vs. original balance of 2600 prior to any court appearances. As per your advice on agreements, I asked for them to send me a settlement letter and they agreed. I’ve made my payment, however, I am concerned as to whether they will dismiss the case in time before my 30 days are up. The account manager on the phone told me it can take up to 45 days. Would you advise that I still send an answer to the court? I do not want a default judgment against me. Thank you so much for your help, this forum has helped me learn so much!

    • Michael Bovee says

      If you have everything in writing, paid on time, and have proof of that, filing an answer may not be necessary. It can take time for the attorney to get the dismissal in. 45 days is not unreasonable.

      Does the agreement with Midland or the attorney speak plainly to the dismissal? If so, you will be okay. If there is some error, you will be able to get it corrected quickly.

      Thanks for posting, and for your kind words too. Please post an update to this string when everything is updated with the courts, credit reports, etc.

  138. Ricardo says

    Hello Michael,

    I recently contacted the offices of Kimball Tirey St John in San Diego. I Called to negotiate a settlement of a judgment filled against me. The collections manager I spoke with initially told me that his client would accept no less than 50% of the amount levied against me and two other members of my family. He later agreed to propose a %25 percent payoff to his client and call me back. When that didn’t happen I called once again.

    This time the same person told me that 50% was the best that could be done. I offered to pay that amount so long as I could have the agreement to settle in writing. He went on to say that the Attorney’s at his office will not allow him to put anything in writing because the case is now closed and has passed the statute of limitations for collection. I asked to run that by a manager but was denied I was told that The best I can do is “take a leap of faith”, that he’ll do what he says. I don’t think I’m asking for anything out of the ordinary:
    -The amount to settle
    -Agreement that it will be reported as Paid Collection
    -Closure for all individuals effected

    He also said that even if I offered to pay the amount in full they would put nothing of our conversation in writing. This issue is really hurting my ability to secure housing but feel I’d be a complete fool to send my money with absolutely no guarantee. So I’m stuck do I have any recourse here?
    Ricardo C.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Thanks for sharing that information about the Kimball Tirey St John law firm. Never take a leap of faith with a debt collector. Can you tell me the name of this particular debt collector working for the firm?

      What is the nature of the debt?

      • Ricardo says

        Hi Michael,

        Thanks for the reply, his name is Jed when I looked at the employee directory I found Jed Sternberg so I assume that’s him.
        I co-signed on an apartment lease 5 years ago. It’s a debt to a property management company in California. I’ve considered trying to make a deal with the management company directly, but since they hired an attorney to collect and the account is now closed. I’m not so sure it would satisfy the judgement against me anyway.

        • Michael Bovee says

          You can negotiate the lump sum payment as conditional for updating the court that the judgment is satisfied.

          How close are you to any of the firms physical offices?

          • Ricardo says

            I’m in Oregon, all of the offices are back in California. It’s bizarre to me that the firm wont put any of the verbal agreement in writing even if I agreed to pay it in full right away.
            This isn’t some kind of collections practice violation?

            • Michael Bovee says

              No, the refusal to reduce an agreement to writing is probably not a violation.

              I will send you an email with contact details to a couple of really good consumer law attorneys in Oregon. Both likely offer an initial consult at no charge, and if they can help you, charge fair fees to get this over the goal line.

  139. Jan says

    Midland Credit Management sent me an offer to settle a several-years-old $10k credit card debt in IN for $3k, but I did not get the letter until after their stated due date. Then I received a “pre-legal notification” that they had tried to contact me and are now “considering forwarding this account to an attorney for possible litigation.” I called them and asked for a similar offer to be resent to my current address in NC so that this could be finally settled. Now they say my account is in a different department since I did not respond, so the least they can accept is $8600. They would not let me talk to anyone but “my account manager” when I called back in hope of talking to a different person with more options; everyone there seems to sound like the same Hispanic guy with different American-sounding names! (Joe, Daniel, and Scott so far) Obviously, they are “all” looking at a computer screen with the last number I was told.

    I have read everything on your excellent website, but am unsure how to proceed. Do I keep calling “Joe” trying to wear him down to the original $3k ? Or does the fact that I called tip him off that I care and surely have less ability to tolerate this business than he does? (I lost my job in 2009 and am just starting on social security as husband got cancer and died last year. I had five credit cards in my name that went unpaid; three ended collection attempts in 2014 and sent me 1099’s for discharged debts, one I settled for about 40% last year, and now these guys show up.) I have no other income but an inherited retirement account that is taxed big-time if I withdraw anything…and it has to support me and disabled son for 30-50 years or so. Your honest advice, please: should I just give “Joe” whatever he wants and worry about our future later, or hang on and try to negotiate further, knowing we need that extra $5k more than Midland does?

    Thanks much—Jan

    • Michael Bovee says

      You definitely need that 5k more than Midland does. Something about your account appears to be causing them to be sticky on the amount they will accept. The 3k auto generated offer can be based on different criteria that may be the result of a computer algo, where what is being looked at now is with a more critical view. I can dig a little deeper with you in a consult if you like?

      You can email me back at the address you get these comment notifications from.

  140. amber says

    I sent a debt settlement letter to a couple of creditors . How long should it take themto reply back if they accept it or not?

    • Michael Bovee says

      Many will not respond to written offers you send. If you are writing to one who has a reputation for responding, it can take a couple weeks.

      Who did you write to?
      Why have you chosen to send letters instead of negotiating over the phone?

  141. Ben says


    This is company collecting from me in regards to a LVNV account that has a judgement against me. I checked my credit report and the judgment number he gave me was what I showed on my credit report. They say they cannot send me a collect agreement until I give them payment method. This scares me but I assumed that I had no other recourse for fear they would garnish. I set payment up for Friday for one time payment. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

    • Ben says

      sorry did not mean to double post. My browser did not show my post so I thought it got deleted or didn’t post.

      • Michael Bovee says

        The settings for the comment system are tight. Any comment that includes a link has to be approved before it goes live.

    • Michael Bovee says

      I would not have done it that way, but it will likely be okay. If it were me I would call them and rehash the deal and record the call (letting them know why). I would keep the recording until the written agreement shows up and then I would keep the recording for longer.

      You should also take notes of all the calls, what was said by whom, and the not the date, time of day, and the numbers and extensions you called or that called you.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Absolutely I would, and even offer an explanation as to why you are recording (they refuse to put the deal in writing).

          • Ben says


            On the recording do you think it matters that I didn’t get him to state the company name?
            He did say his name as Mr. Green but not company. I forgot to ask him to say it.


            • Michael Bovee says

              With all of the other bread crumbs, you have a trail the size of a city sidewalk that leads to the identity of the debt collector. If it were me I would have no problem with it.

              • Ben says


                I have paid this off and the law office keeps telling me they sent notification to me that it was paid. But I have not seen the letter yet and it has been about 2 months. Do you have a recommendations on what I can do?


  142. Jorge Osorio says

    Hello Michael,
    I hope you can provide a second opinion and help me sort out my doubts and relieve some of my stress regarding a settlement letter from MCM. The figures used are approximate.

    I retained an attorney last month to help me settle one debt collection lawsuit (for about $2500) and settle another collection account (for $30,000) which has not yet gone to a lawsuit. Both accounts are with Midland Credit Management, and are debts that I recognize as valid.( I defaulted in early 2010).
    My question is in regards to the $30,000 account.
    My attorney, after just a couple days of negotiations, received a faxed settlement letter from MCM and he thinks its fine, but when I looked at it carefully, it makes me very nervous.
    The letter has the main bullet points outlined in your article (name, date, account numbers,payment terms, MCM letterhead, and its being sent by a verified account manager at MCM, etc etc) but my question is that I think the wording of the letter and the payment terms is fuzzy and confusing to me , so much that I think the letter is open to misinterpretation, not in my favor.

    First, to clarify, I am now able to fully pay a $9000 lump sum to settle the $30,000 balance ( which was originally about 24K , plus interest since 2010 till now) . MCM had been sending me settlement offers by mail on this account for quite a while (which I had ignored), including one for $9000 lump sum, but they stopped sending the offers in March 2015 , about the same time the other smaller account went into legal, and is now in lawsuit. This settlement agreement has already been funded and payment sent to MCM last week, but I am very nervous that I may have been too trusting of my attorney and I am extremely anxious of a possible bad outcome to this.

    The pertinent wording on the current settlement offer is as follows:
    “Dear (my name)
    Congratulations on taking the first step to resolve this debt. This letter confirms the settlement arrangements on the above reference account, with an exising balance of $30,000.
    The settlement terms we have agreed to are as follows:

    Agreed-Upon Payment Amount: $9000
    Initial Payment Amount: $8000
    Initial Payment Due Date: 6-29-2015
    Monthly Payment Amount: $1000
    Due Date: Last day of each month

    This settlement arrangement is made in good faith and is contingent upon payment of the total settlement amount. If the payment instrument is returned “not paid” for any reason, this letter will be null and void. In the event you fail to make all payments on time and as agreed, this agreement will no longer be valid. After receiving your final payment, we will consider the account paid*.

    Should you have any questions regarding your payment arrangement or for further information, please don’t hesitate to call me at #####, ext ###.


    (Name), Account Manager

    *If you pay your full balance, we will report your account as Paid in Full. If you pay less than your full balance, we will report your account as Paid in Full for less than the full balance. ”
    At the end is a payment certificate stating Amount Due: $9000 and due date 6-29-2015.
    Also, the faxed letter does not show a signature by the Account Manager, although it is confirmed that this Account Manager spoke by phone to my attorney.

    My questions and doubts have to do with the fact that I am not sure what this letter is saying!!
    The letter uses the term “Agreed Upon Payment Amount” = $9000, but then later uses the wording
    ” total settlement amount”. So are those two terms interchangeable? Is the “total settlement amount” in fact = $9000??
    and I am nervous about the wording of a $1000 monthly payment being due “last day of each month”. I clearly told my attorney I wanted a lump sum payment and funded an escrow account with more than the $9000 lump sum payment, but my attorney said it was written that way
    because during negotiations she stated that I only had $8000 on hand and needed to secure an additional $1000 as a negotiation tactic to get them to agree to the $9k amount, and my attorney said something to the affect of “thats the way MCM writes these letters up” or “thats the way they do this”, but absolutely assured me that the “settlement amount” is $9000.

    What do you think? I am absolutely nervous and anxious about this, and we have not heard anything back yet from MCM even though the full $9k check was sent on June 23.
    I absolutely hope you ultimately tell me there is nothing to worry about.

    Thank you so much for your time,

    • Michael Bovee says

      Thanks for taking the time to post all of the Jorge. I think you have nothing at all to be worried about. With this letter (keep it in a safe place), and the proof of payment, you could fix any error or omission, should one occur.

      If something does go wrong, in any way, post an update and lets go from there. The vast majority of settlements go smoothly, and that goes for Midland Credit too.

      • Jorge Osorio says

        Dear Michael,
        Thank you very much for your prompt reply and it definitely helps alleviate my fears. I will certainly post what outcome results from this.
        Thanks a million.

      • Jorge Osorio says

        Just to further clarify what my fear is, I am afraid that they will take my $9000 payment as just a payment and not a full settlement payment and will expect me to keep paying $1000 a month until the entire $30,000 balance is paid. Am I being overly paranoid? and if not, why do you think they are so loose and undisciplined with the terminology they use in this letter? Is this kind of stuff typical, I wonder.

        • Michael Bovee says

          Yes, you are being overly paranoid. There reference to the 9k being the agreed upon settlement is in what you shared. The normal disclosures I expect to see in a Midland settlement agreement are there (about credit reporting a settlement).

          You are all set, and with a good settlement deal too.

          • Jorge says

            Should I start to worry now?

            My debt settlement payment was due June29 and my attorney told me she mailed the payment on June 23, but now I find out she used regular mail only. As of now, MCM says the payment has not posted yet.
            I assume “posted” means the check arrived at their office and is logged in as payment on the account. So the deadline has passed and they have not acknowledged receipt of payment, to me this is a disaster because potentially they can cash the check and not honor the agreement since they could say it did not arrive in time.
            I have lost sleep over this and this development does not help.
            I spoke to my attorney and she says to wait until Monday to see if it posts, and that the MCM accounts manager person emailed her to the effect that she will still honor the settlement. My attorney says if nothing posts on Monday then she will do a stop payment on the check, but of course, my fear is that MCM may have already deposited and cleared the check, hopefully I will find out on Monday.
            To me, these kinds of things continue to indicate incompetence on behalf of my attorney and I should not have trusted her…I hope I am wrong.

            • Michael Bovee says

              If the rep at Midland Credit sent an email saying they will honor the agreement than you have little to worry about.

              I understand the concerns about debt collectors, and every step should have been taken to get the payment confirmed by the expiration date of the settlement agreement. Was this a situation where you were sued and hired the attorney, or did you enroll in a debt settlement program with an attorney?

              • Jorge says

                Hello Michael,
                Thanks for your reply.

                For this account, I hired an attorney to settle this particular debt since she was also helping me with a lawsuit on another debt with the same creditor, junk debt buyer, MCM.

                This is the latest as of today July 6 morning:
                The MCM account manager has informed my attorney that the payment posted on July 2, and has indicated by email to my attorney that the debt is paid and that a “paid letter” will be sent by MCM within 30 days.

                My questions and doubts persist. The payment posted outside of the due date , which was June 29. I get the feeling that the paid letter (which I presume is the same as the “letter of satisfaction”) is created by someone else at MCM, not that particular account manager that my attorney has been emailing and communicating with, what if they use the date of posting as an excuse to say that the payment arrived late?
                Is this 30 day period a standard, usual, typical amount of time, why do they take so long to send out this letter? that means I have at least another 30 days of worry in my chest ahead of me.

                Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

                • Michael Bovee says

                  Given the update you provided, I have no worries at all. You can even use the communication they sent your attorney later on with a regulatory complaint if need be.

                  The 30 days turn around time on confirmation letters like this is normal.

                  While you do want to be hyper aware of the details when dealing with debt collectors, try not to take it to the point of losing sleep or other manifestations. If something goes awry I can help you, and just with the details you have provided so far.

                  • Jorge says

                    Hello Michael,
                    Thanks for your reply.
                    To finish properly answering your previous question, on this particular 30K collection account, MCM had not gotten to the point of suing me yet, all they did was stop sending me offer letters in the mail, last one was February 2015. They sent another , smaller debt of $2500 to attorneys and filed a lawsuit on that in small claims court in May 2015..

                    My question remains, should not my attorney have sent the payment by some sort of registered method so that , as a minimum, we would have proof of when the payment was mailed? Is that not proof of incompetence by failing to do that? My attorney gets very rude and testy when I ask questions, so , like an idiot, I was also afraid to ask her if she did something as basic as sending a 9K payment by registered mail….I fully blame myself for that, but she should know better!

                    I have another large credit card debt collection account remaining after this one is hopefully cleared up..and I do not want to go thru this attorney for that other account, which is with Cavalry SPV I, LLC.
                    This one is also for about 30K.
                    Cavalry has sent this one to the attorneys and they sued in August 2014 but could not find me to serve me so the suit was dismissed in Feb 2015 , without prejudice, so they still have until December of this year (SOL)to refile a lawsuit. I may need your help in settling this one, please advise on what you charge on something like this. Thanks

                    • Michael Bovee says

                      I would have handled payment differently than she did to insure timely delivery, but she has the back up she needs with her later communications to and from Midland Credit.

                      As for the Cavalry account, call in for a consultation at 800-939-8357 and choose option 2 so I can get into the details of that account and your ability to deal with it. As far as fees go, they will not be more than 15% of the savings achieved. Actual fees cannot be known until the deal is negotiated and put in front of you in black and white, and then accepted by you.

  143. lynn says

    Our B of A account is in the hands of Couch Conville Blitt. The amount of debt is 18,800. We are fortunate enough to have a family member help us pay off this debt. So we talked to Couch and made a settlement with them for just 11,000. We had to make a first payment of 3800 that week and we asked them for a settlement letter which they said they would mail us one. Its been a week now after making that first payment and the next one is due on july 30 but still no settlement letter in the mail yet. Should we be worried there’s no settlement letter yet? Should we keep bugging them to send one?They seem very professional and hopefully they can be trusted!

    • Michael Bovee says

      I would call and cover the details of the settlement you negotiated and record the phone call. Let them know you are doing so, and then request the letter to be sent again as something may have prevent it from getting to you.

      I would also suggest you have good notes at this point of all prior conversations with them, including dates and times of who you spoke with. This is all just in case and while things are more fresh in your mind.

  144. Carmen says

    Mr. Bovee,
    I have a question regarding settling an old credit card debt.
    I opened a credit card account in 3/2006. The last payment I made was in 6/2013. The account was charged off in 12/2013.

    Last week I received a letter from US Bank and Portfolio Recovery Associates that this debt was sold/purchased by PRA. The amount is $5,555.88. This debt is not time barred in my state (not for two more years) but regardless, I’d like to settle with them to just get this over & out!

    My question is this…. in your experience and professional opinion, do you think they’d accept a final offer of $2,000? I’m hesitant to contact them until I’m feeling more confident about this offer because it’s the max I can do!
    Thank you,

    • Michael Bovee says

      I will leave my reply for any other follow up information you post because of how much we covered in the phone consult.

      For the benefit if other readers I will say again that realistic settlement percentages with PRA tend to be around 50%, but a tad lower is possible when conditions are right.

      • Carmen says

        Hi Michael!
        I did read a lot of the comments here before posting, and I did watch some videos after we spoke. I’m giving a lot of info you already know in case other readers might be helped.

        I called Professional Recovery Associates and they gave me a nice song & dance. The first woman I spoke with (after I told her my story) said they would work with me, and passed me on to her supervisor. Again, I explained my circumstances & my desire to send a certified check via certified mail to settle the $5,555.88 for two grand. I was put on hold…offered a settlement of $4500. Again, I expressed my desire and the amount available…another hold, then an offer of $3,100. What they REALLY wanted is my $2,000 as a don payment and then to make payments for the rest. No, thank you.

        Lady #2, (the supervisor) said that, “…before I go to our vice president to see about cutting this further you have to be willing to come up on what you’ll pay.” I told her I could go up $100, maybe two….but that was not enough for her and I could hear her trying to get tough.

        I told her I didn’t want to get into a payment plan, I just want to make a one payment in full on a negotiated amount. They really want my bank account number, to make a “…secure payment, that will be insured through my bank and I won’t have to worry about it getting lost in the mail.”

        I told her I’d think about it and call back. She warned me I’d have to begin negotiations all over again. I told her that is fine. I asked if should call her, or the first lady, she said no, just call. They told me they only have had my account for two weeks and could tell by the payment history (prior to the default) was excellent so they knew there was an event that occurred.

        I will call next week & see what happens.
        Thanks again!

  145. Danielle says

    Hello. I have been attempting to settle a debt with First Financial Asset Management. They absolutely refuse to give me a statement in writing detailing our verbal agreement for repayment. I want to pay this debt, have agreed to pay $200 a month over the next 48 months to pay this debt in full, but it is “not their policy” to send out letters, emails, or fax statements showing the agreement. Is there any law that requires them to furnish documentation of a verbal agreement? Thank you in advance for your assistance.

    Oh, yes, it is a valid debt! We’ve already verified it. I just want to pay it, set up an allotment to have it paid every month, and move. All I want is something in writing.

    • Michael Bovee says

      There are only a handful of states that require collectors to put agreements in writing. What state are you in?

      You can also record the conversation you have with the collector at First Financial Asset. Keep that recording and a copy of very thorough notes of everything that was said, by whom, and on what day and time, leading up to that phone call. It will help if you need to resolve a dispute later.

  146. Sherrie D says

    Good afternoon Mike,
    On a previously website you indicates that you had information “concerning the best time to request a settlement or to negotiate. i am request an settlement with ERC. The debt is $595.00 but they are request that I settlement for 303.00. Is this a good deal? ERC wanted me to provide banking information before receiving a settlement letter, an addition to post dating a check over the phone. Is this illegal? What is the best deal to settle? In a previous blog you stated that I should record the conversation, can this be use in lieu of settlement letter from the collection agency.

    • Michael Bovee says

      Smaller balance debts do not always settle for the best rates. 50 percent is not all that bad a deal on this amount.

      If I wanted to get a settlement done, and they simply refuse to document it before the payment is in the system, I would indeed record the call start to finish, hit all the highlights, and fully identify the speaker, etc., before setting up or making payments. I would keep that recording in a safe place (backed up on my computer and one or two additional hard backups).

      I would tell them I am recording and why (they refuse to send the deal in writing).