Should you pay Convergent Outsourcing collecting old unpaid debts?
Hello, I have a question on a debt that has transferred several times. The original creditor was Beneficial Co. It went to collection and had since passed through at least 3 collectors, the latest being Convergent. I have never received any written correspondence from Convergent, only phone calls.
The collector before them was Jefferson Capital. The last written correspondence from Jefferson was in the form of a settlement offer that was still very much beyond my ability to pay. The date of offer was Jan 2014. I did not respond. But I looked at the back of the offer and noticed that it said that because of the debt's age, it was time-barred against legal actions. It also said that any payment would not restart the aging. And, that if said debt was transferred to a new owner that they would be required in writing to do the same.
At this point what are my best options?
How should I handle a time-barred debt Convergent is trying to collect?
—CC
Convergent Outsourcing is a large debt collector with offices in several cities in the US and in Central America. They are more diverse with the types of debts they collect than most collection agencies.
Not all debts are created equal, and it takes familiarity to train and set up collection call centers with focuses on unpaid credit cards, signature loans (like your was with Beneficial), medical bills, and commercial debts.
Convergent also collects on partial or full zombie debt, as evidenced by your account being time barred.
Partial Zombie Debt – An unpaid bill that has passed the statue in your state that limits how long a legitimate lawsuit can be filed to collect through the courts.
Fully Dead Debt – An unpaid bill that is time barred, and also is too old to remain as a collection account on your credit reports.
Options for Resolving Debts with Convergent
Not everyone being contacted by convergent will be dealing with as old a debt as you are. And we all have different goals, which would suggest resolving an old bill works best for one; while waiting for collections to drop off your credit report is best for another; and where telling a debt collector to cease all communications, or requesting debt validation, may be ideal for you. Hang with me here, while I cover all of those.
As with most unsecured debts that are outsourced to a debt collector, you can negotiate a reduced lump sum settlement with Convergent. The older the account is that Convergent is collecting, the lower my negotiation targets would be on a percentage basis. It also can matter who Convergent is collecting for. In your case, they may be collecting for Jefferson Capital still, or new debt owner.
If I were negotiating your debt today, I would target less than 30 percent, and only if my goal was to have the account updated as zero balance owed on my credit report. That is because I know they cannot sue to collect in my state, but with it still on my credit (if it is), I can accomplish some finance goal I have, like getting a mortgage. If the debt is full zombie, I would not negotiate any pay off with Convergent, no matter the offer. Not unless my purpose for doing so were personal, like a sense of obligation, which is fine. I would still aim low, as the current debt owner would have paid little to purchase the legal rights to collect on your debt.
I would not be looking for options to set up payments with Convergent.
Any arrangement I were to make, I would want to get in writing.
Convergent and Debt Validation or Cease Communication
I use debt validation requests sparingly. They are a bit over hyped on the internet when it comes to dealing with accounts in collection. But there are times where validation requests are critical to understanding who you may owe, how much, and whether the collection agency trying to get you to pay is even the correct party.
There are reasons to use debt validation as stall tactic to meet a different goal, and it also can have the affect of telling a debt collector to go away. The reasons are:
- If a debt collector needs to get more details from the debt owner so that they can meet their obligation to validate, it could take a while, and in some instances, they never can. You can buy time to gather funds to settle with a lump sum, or more time to pass your states SOL.
- By sending the validation request, you have indicated to a debt collector that you are interested in protecting your rights. That can also often mean you have now willingness or ability to pay. Collectors would rather spend their time trying to collect from people that have both of those qualities. They now know you are not an easy fit into either.
Finally, as far as your situation goes, if Convergent, or the debt owner that hired them, is not on your credit reports due to the original account dropping off from age, you can send the cease communication letter.
I do not recommend sending a cease communication notice to debt collectors unless you are certain the debt is passed your state SOL and time barred. The reason is that it effectively shuts down any form of communication. Convergent cannot call or write. That leaves collection through the courts as the only option to seek payment from you, which you can disregard because of how long it has been.
And I caution sending this type of bug off letter if the account is still on your credit reports, and when you may have financing goals you want to accomplish before it drops off your credit. Unpaid bills on your credit can hold up the ability to get a home loan.
If you do send a letter to a collection agency, validation, bug off, or otherwise, always use certified mail return receipt requested. And keep a copy of the letters and green cards you get back for your records.
You are welcome to post in the comments below for any clarity or feedback. Anyone with questions or concerns when dealing with Convergent Outsourcing, or their many affiliated companies, is welcome to post in the comments below for response.
Renee says
I received a phone call from Convergent. I called the phone number back and was told it was from an account from 2017. He said it was 500.00 but with interest and late fees it’s now another 2,000. dollars more. The debt was when I lived in Illinois. I now live in Arizona. I want to get a mortgage in the next 6-9 months. It’s not on my credit report. When I probed for more information he said if I’m disputing the debt then it will now show up on my credit report in the next 72 hours. I’m wondering what I should do? Do I try to settle for less ? I just wasn’t sure if me trying to settle will prevent them from the debt being reported. to my credit report.
Michael Bovee says
If you stopped paying the account more than 7 years ago it should not appear on your credit. Depending on the state you live in, the account is likely passed the statute to sue in order to collect as well. That means the account Convergent is collecting on is unlikely to interrupt your home purchase plans, or anything else, unless they try to put it back on your credit illegitimately.
If that happens, post an update and let’s go from there.
You may want to double check when the account went delinquent in 2017. There could still be a few months for Convergent to legitimately show on your credit depending on the month you stopped paying.
I have a debt from sprint from around 2016 that I just got a debt collection settlement offer from convergent for. They are offering to settle my $351 debt at 30% of a settlement in full of $105 I would like to pay this and get it off of my credit report but want to make sure that by paying the settlement amount that they cannot come after me later for more. I was young and stupid when this debt and others were created but am looking at getting married in about 2 years and would like to come into the marriage debt free.
Check the letter for all the elements I point out here: https://consumerrecoverynetwork.com/debt-settlement-letters-agreements/
Make sure they have your payment by any offer expiration date.
Some places delete from your credit, and others do not.
Hi Michael, thank you for your wonderful resource and attention. Dealing with a Convergent outsourcing collection from Tmobile from mid last year for less than $150 that they tacked a fee on too. Want this OFF my report. Willing to pay it in full or write/online-form? fillout to do so. Debt is relatively fresh as you can see. What are the things you advise to do or try to get it off the cr?
Aside, do you have any stories of anyone getting a successful goodwill letter removal from convergent?
I do not have any first hand success stories of pay for delete with Convergent.
Thanks for your reply. So is paying it the only option to dealing with it, or is there anything else you suggest doing?
Some of us would still try to dispute it off our credit after it is paid.
I had an account with Sprint that I asked to have stopped after my husband died and daughter married. I could not afford the unused lines and because of the high prices of Sprint, did not want their years added to my line. Sprint sent a bill for 1134. for dropping the lines. The last payment I made was in 2013 I believe. Convergent Outsourcing has put it on different credit bureaus, reopening it with different start dates each time. They have put it as Convergent Outsourcing, COI, and Convergent Solutions at different times. Right now they have it on Equifax with a start date of January 2016. How do I get this removed, or do I still have to wait until the new start date is up from them, and how do I keep it from bouncing to another credit bureau again?
If you stopped paying in 2013 the 7 year shelf life is up sometime this year. Try to pin down the date you stopped and then count forward the 7 years. If it is still on your credit reports after that I would dispute it off: https://consumerrecoverynetwork.com/dispute-tradeline-diy-credit-repair/
I would try to gather any records of this debt from back then too, or create a chronology of events, in case you need that detail in your dispute. Using old credit reports, or collection notices, etc.
CONVERGENT OUTSOURCI has a debt on me for 1,200.00 bucks from T-Mobile. Thing is on my Credit Report it says opened for 1 yr 5 mon. Yet I know this was from like 2011 or 2012 which would be 8 years ago. In California. I’m now getting ready to buy a home and working on the loan part now. Do I just pay this off or can I say No your wrong its been too long?
If it is too old to be on there I would dispute it: https://consumerrecoverynetwork.com/dispute-tradeline-diy-credit-repair/
Did you speak to a debt collector about it? If so, unfortunately you most likely restarted the clock on the collection.
Why do you say that Jay?
Most states you do not restart the SOL with a phone call.
If you settle for a set amount with Convergient Outsource will they only with do that amount agreed upon
Can you rephrase the question and offer more of the details surrounding the account?
I have received a collection letter from convergent and they have reported a debt from T mobile . I had a collection from T mobile removed for 451 back in 2015 and another collection agency in 2016 for same amount. I have not had any tmobile service since 2007. Convergent reports a collection account on my report for a different amount 391 as of nov 2016 and jan and feb 2017 not only as collection but also reported again as an unpaid balance. Not only is the amount incorrect and changed by Convergent but this is past the statute of limitations and they will not remove nor will they send me any proof? How can I get this removed?
I would file a complaint against Convergent with the CFPB.
Hello michael after reading this information im curious about this letter i recieved regarding a debt i have with paypal from 2014. My total balance is of 718,20 and it says they will settle for 50% . The thing is i checked in my credit score and it does not show at all. Ik young and really dont know much about credit score so what do you recommend me to do thank you . I know my credit score is low and i am trying to fix it .
It is normal for an unpaid debt from 2014 to show on your credit reports. Something like that would typically be on your reports until 2021-ish.
If you are trying to fix your credit report, and have limited resources, I would look to resolve other things first, as this one is not showing at all right now. Just be aware that it could pop up, and often will as soon as you start to resolve other debts that get updated to your credit.
If you receive a collection notice from Convergent Outsourcing you need to completely verify one that it is true and two that it is a debt owed.
A small search on google will show that they are running a scam to take people for their money. There are SEVERAL complaints about this company.
Funny thing is when they tried to scam me, I filed a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. You will find what happened next really funny. They closed the account and will no longer be contacting me.
Strange how when you involve the GOV, they quickly retreat. Do yourself a favor and report them. Shut these clowns down !!
Here’s my Convergent situation. Received a letter from them yesterday, saying that their client (T-Mobile) has authorized them to offer a 50% settlement. This account is not shown anywhere on my credit reports. I am, however, in the middle of buying a home. My concern is, that this pops up between now and my closing in 3 weeks.
The debt is fairly old (2012), I believe. I’m willing to pay this, for no other reason than putting it to bed so it doesn’t effect my mortgage in the next 3 weeks.
If I pay them immediately, with the issue be done with? Or, will they be able to report it as paid on my credit reports?? VERY CONCERNED!!
Thanks for any advice you may offer, in advance!!
CC
If it is a legitimate debt that is simply not appearing on your credit than it could show up and frustrate the loan closing. If it were me, and I wanted the home loan to go off without a hitch, I would probably pay it, and if it did show up on my credit before closing, it would show paid and possibly not stall the loan process. If it happened to show up now as unpaid that could certainly stop the loan from proceeding.
Any way to know whether they would wait for the offer to expire before reporting it, if they’re going to? I’m only 3 weeks from closing. I already have my clear to close, with the final credit pull being performed next week, to confirm debts/etc. I’m definitely going to pay it, and take the offer – I just want to do it in the way that has the lowest odds of creating a problem.
Ask your loan officer or broker what their experience with this is. If they are not new they will have seen this play out many times.
See Michael thats exactly what they want you to do. I repeat DO NOT PAY A THING to them until you VERIFY it is actually a real debt that you owe.
It is not complicated to verify whether a debt is valid and one that you owe. No one should pay a debt that is not theirs, and there are times where it may not be wise to pay a debt that is yours. I am not sure why you think we have an argument.
All caps posters get deleted. Only warning.
I have one for you. I received a notice from Convergent Outsourcing to a business name I used to own at a PO BOX address. It was for a paypal debt that i don’t recall owing. It mentions that it’s outside of the limits to file a lawsuit and also it’s in my business name and doesn’t have my real name or ssn listed anywhere (Business is long gone 9+ years ago). Also it’s not on ANY credit report that i can find. I was just going to toss it in the trash but i’d be curious to what your thoughts are? (I had a paypal account for that business 15+ years ago, maybe there was an issue they never contacted me about, but this is the first collection i’ve ever seen in reference to it).
If a debt is passed your states statute of limitations to file a legitimate lawsuit, and has dropped from your credit report after 7 years, it is what can be referred to as Zombie debt. If it were me I would not do anything about zombie debt other than perhaps send a cease communication letter certified mail.
Thank you. At this point i’m just going to ignore the letter and we will see if they send anything else. The debt has NEVER showed up on my credit report at anytime (I’ve been monitoring my credit for the last 10 years at least).
Thank you again!
Hi, I was wondering when the 7 years on your report starts? is it from the last Payment date, or the date it was reported?(which is Mar 2013)
It says that I have 1 closed account An old HSBC Credit card bill I haven’t paid. it says charged off owe $0 was wondering how that affects my credit and what i should do
The clock start with when you stopped paying HSBC. Now that HSBC is showing a zero balance owed to them you know they sold the legal rights to a debt buyer.
I have an old T-Mobile bill that is trying to be collected through Convergent. It was for a line that I wanted to say I opened in 2009, once I received the phone I realized there was no signal in my area for T-Mobile, I called back to see if I could cancel and return and was told No that I would have to pay a large fee. Well that wasn’t happening for a phone that their map told me would work in my area! Anyways I disputed the bill the beginning of this year through CreditKarma, and it came back with incorrect info so it was deleted off my credit reports. Well fast forward and I checked my credit for the first time in a while about a month ago and saw that they reopened the report and now the open date shows as June of this year! What would you recommend and how do I obtain my original date of first delinquency? Thanks.
I would dispute the account off your credit reports again. I would use the process laid out in that link.
If the account comes back verified post an update and lets go from there.
Hi Mike,
I have a similar situation to one of your other readers. I received a collection notice from Convergence that I owe over $2,000 on an outstanding bill to Verizon. But three things make this very suspicious – 1. i have never opened an account with Verizon; 2) my last name is misspelled; and 3) I haven’t lived in the US for nine years. Lastly, there is no date of the outstanding payment so I have no idea if it meets any SOL for the state.
Due to my international status I cannot request a credit report online (it must be a US IP address), and they say it can take up to five weeks to get it via the US postal service. I requested it but that’s going to take some time, and the company requires a response within 30 days about the bill per the fine print. Since I didn’t have an account with Verizon, I can try to call them and ask about the status of the account but they may tell me to take a hike without an account number.
Do you recommend that I simply skip checking my credit report and go right to asking for complete information on the billing statement from Convergence regarding the outstanding invoice? Frankly I’d rather not get in touch with them at all if I can help it. Would it be possible to open an account in someone else’s name with a misspelling of a last name? I’m wondering if there was an attempt at identity theft here as well.
Thanks so much for providing your service and opinion, it’s much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Stephanie
If it were me I would both request debt validation from Convergent, and review my credit reports. Calling Verizon if you never had an account with them is not likely to lead to anything productive.
Do you have anyone state side that you trust enough to try to pull your reports while you are on the phone or on skype together? You can have them email them to you real time that way. I am similarly concerned about ID theft for you.
I have three separate credit issues and looking to get advice:
I’m in NY and I am looking to purchase my first home in the next 3-4 so…
#1. I recently pulled all three credit repots and I see a 5yr old collections account from one of the credit bureaus from my old dentist for $267 that I don’t believe I owe (because the dentist did the extra service without asking me and billed me after I got out the chair.) I’m thinking of paying it now because its such small amount but I’m terrified to contact them and re-set the statue of limitation or possibly have them tell me I owe hundreds more in interest or something. What do you think the best steps are? Should I let it fall off?
#2. I just received two letters from creditors within the month. One from Convergent with an old Cablevision bill for $378.54. I didn’t see this on my credit report and I’m not sure how old it is but on the back it states, “We cannot sue to collect debt providing a partial payment may revive the creator’s ability to sue to collect the balance” Should I address this with them or leave it alone since its not on my credit report? Can they add it later on? (My fear is them adding it on while I’m trying to get a mortgage)
#3. The other letter I received was from another collection agency for a Paypal account debt. (also not on my credit report) This one I thought they had the wrong person. i went into my paypal account and saw the debt. It was for a purchase that got sent back for some reason. This is the first time hearing of the debt. Its over a year old and for over $2000 which is a lot for me. Is there any advice you can give me BEFORE I contact them. My goal is for this to NOT go on my credit report. And hopefully get them to lower the amount so i can pay it all off at once. Any advice?
When you say you want to buy a home in “3-4” is than months or years? If years, you could let Convergent and the dentist go, and just settle the PayPal account. Who is collecting on that PayPal account right now?
If you are trying to buy a home in the next few months, you can settle the dentist bill. New York is unique in the fact that paid collections are removed after 5 years, not 7. That means the dentist office collection will drop from your credit. Also, paid medical debt does not impact credit scores the way it used to.
The Convergent bill is too old to sue, which is a 6 year SOL in New York. If Convergent is not on your credit reports today, it could be because it is 7 or more years old. Not much to be concerned about here if that is the case.
Thanks for your reply! We’re looking to buy in the next 3-4 months. And American Coradius International (ACI) is collecting on PayPal. I’m going to reach out to them, any tips on getting them to reduce the amount??? Or tips on getting them. It to report to the bureau (I know that’s probably a long-shot)
One more question… In New York does the ‘paid collections’ drop off my credit reports starting from the date paid in full or starting the date owed?
Thanks again!!!
Most of what I cover in this article (and in the comments) about negotiating with a debt collection agency will apply to you.
Unpaid debt in New York will stay on your credit reports for up to 7 and one half years. But paid collections in New York only stay on for 5 years.
I have recently been receiving computer generated telephone calls from Convergent Outsourcing asking me to call a 1-855 number. They do not offer any explanation of the call and I am not aware of any debt/s. What action do you recommend I take? There is a ‘Do Not Call’ procedure on Convergent’s website. Do you advise that I should submit this DNC request?
If it were me I would first call them and find out what they are calling about. You may not think you have a collection account because you pay everything on time, but what if this is an early warning of identity theft?
After you determine they are making a mistake by contacting you, then submit any do not call details.
I have a debt from verizon that I am paying through convergent. My questions is: they told me that because I made payment agreements with them, it is not reported in my credit score. Os this true?
How long ago was it you stopped paying Verizon? Is this on your credit reports right now?
I got the letter from verizon on December of 2015 amd I started paying through convergent on June of 2016. It is still showing in my Credit Report.
They lied to you if you have been paying for that long and it is still on your credit reports. It is not normal to be offered a pay for delete.
I have received a letter from Convergent stating they are trying to collect on a past due bill from Comcast in the amount of over $1200.00. My problem is that I have never used Comcast nor had an account with them. I have received two letters from them but no phones calls. I would prefer to not engage in communication with them at this point as I know it would probably lead to the phone calls and more. What would you suggest I do at this time?
I would request debt validation from Convergent. Send your request in writing certified mail.
Is this appearing on your credit reports?
What about if the debt is incorrect? Comcast charged me $191.00 for not turning in their equipment which I did do! I called them right away & they said they would take care of it. That was 4 years ago & I never heard another word from them. Two months ago I was looking at my credit report & saw that I had a negative for $191.00 from Comcast. I disputed it with credit karma & it was taken off my credit report. I just received a letter from Convergent saying the Debt was valid but now I owe $762.33!! How can they do that, & what should I do? I refuse to pay for something I did not owe!
You will likely want to communicate with the Bureaus. Check out this post about sending credit report disputes.
I received a letter from Convergent to settle a debt through Verizon for 20% of the debt. I paid the settlement, my questions are will it come off my credit report, if not how do i get it removed?
Convergent will drop from your credit report organically after 7.5 years of when you stopped paying Verizon originally. That is the normal time frame. You do not need it off of your credit, you just need it to show resolved, in order to improve your credit and finance options.
My husband and I are trying to purchase a home, but unfortunately he has an old t mobile bill that is now in collections with convergent that needs to be resolved. The last time he paid t mobile was in 2007, but on his credit report convergent is showing up as “opened” in September of 2015. We are in PA and I know the SOL is 4 years. We just want this off his credit report or at least out of collections, but we refuse to pay the $2000 convergent is claiming he owes. What is our best plan of action here?
Thanks!
I would file disputes with the credit bureaus that are showing the debt. If it has been more than 7 and one half years since a payment was made, the account should not be there. Let me know what happens with the dispute and I can offer more feedback from there.
I would like to know if convergent removed your collection. I am in the same situation had a T-Mobile account back in 2011. Convergent is saying we owe $2,066 and had it reopen in 12/15. They also reported it different (open closed late/monthly late since 2/16) to all 3 credit agency’s! It is the only item on my credit report stopping my from being pre approved for purchasing a house. Please let me know how you made out and what action you took.
Thank You
I am glad I saw this posting. I am a banker with perfectly clean credit. I used to have a Paypal account many years ago. I remember telling Paypal to close my account as my wife opened one, so we did not need 2. The letter from Convergent arrived today totally out of the blue. It says I owe funds to Paypal and they will settle for 35%. There is nothing on my credit reports and I monitor Equifax. It probably is 8-9 years since using Paypal and not once did I ever get a notice from Paypal about owing any monies. So, I wrote a letter (not mailed yet) asking them for any and all documents, files, correspondence, proof of monies owed and whatever other information they have in their files to validate the debt. My letter states that I want more than a simple statement of account, that is not proof in my book.I don’t know the exact date of what Paypal is saying the owed amount is from nor does the letter say when Convergent was given this assignment. I do not wish to call them, I could leave this alone too with the hope it goes no further, not really sure. What do you think?
It also says they cannot sue. I am in Florida, I wonder what the laws state regarding a matter such as this.
You can simply ignore super old debt like this that Convergent is trying to collect. If you can no longer be sued, and the account does not appear on your credit reports, it is often considered zombie debt.
If you do not want to ignore it, and would prefer to stop getting Convergent phone calls and mail, you could send a letter that you want all communication to stop. I would typically only send a cease communication letter regarding really old debts like yours. Send anything like this using certified mail.
Thank you. I do not believe I am getting any phone calls but I generally don’t answer called from unidentified numbers. So, are you saying to send a cease communication letter or not or just ignore this letter? If I ignore it, could they then file a collection or if I send a letter, would that just validate my existence, so to speak, and fall into a bigger hole? My first thought is to ignore it. I don’t really think they actually know where I live although it is correct, maybe they are just fishing, don’t know. I could have moved by now. since the debt is so old. On my monitoring service for Equifax, nothing is there, it is perfect, no collections. Maybe I should monitor all 3 bureau’s, do you have any suggestions on who to secure this from? Equifax offers it as does Experian. I don’t know at this moment if this Convergent is on my Experian or TransUnion reports.I don’t hear anything from TransUnion although I am pretty sure they offer a monitoring service too. So, how do I monitor all 3 of my credit bureau’s and know it’s accurate? Who do I go with? Is there another choice or option to monitor all 3? I have 2 CC’s. My FICO score is 727 according to one of my CC companies who offers that score on their statements. My other CC company, Barclay’s Bank, also shows a FICO score but it is considerably less. I am wondering why this occurs? It’s a 40 point difference which is significant. I don’t understand how one bank can show a higher FICO score and then another a much lower one.
As a side note which I did not mention, I was forced to file a Chapter 13 in August, 2009 due to a very serious spinal injury, I accrued $1,o00,000 in bills after 4 major lower back fusions and then a cervical fusion. Insurance paid a bunch and I paid a ton of money towards the outstanding balances but could not pay off a very significant portion. It was discharged in October, 2014 I was successful in having any and all collections removed from my reports. It is my understanding it will drop off in August, 2016, 7 years from filing. I am sure that will have a significant impact on my FICO scores? You can imagine that a career bank executive having to file this action was pretty embarrassing but my bank fully understood, thank god.
Sorry for all of the questions/comments but I was hoping you could provide your expertise. Thank you!
PS, I did see my TransUnion reports and Experian reports a lot over the past 18 months, removing collections and late accounts. This collection agency was not on there at that time either.
You are a bit more worried about this old bill with Convergent than you need be. The debt cannot harm you legally at this point, or your credit reports. If anything like that were to occur, post an update and I will help you from there.
Many credit score models are approximations and not the real deal. And even the score you see that is real may not be the one a car dealer would see if you were at a dealer applying for financing, that may be different still when compared to what a mortgage lender would see. There are too many variables.
Your credit is in good shape. I would not be monitoring the score, but would want to pull a report every 4 months to check for accuracy. You can do that at http://www.annualcreditreport.com – and this is free. You have access to one report from the major 3 bureaus every 12 month period from that site. You can pull one every 4 months and look for any issues.
I will often recommend using a monitoring service when someone is looking for major financing and has to resolve some debts or make improvements to their credit over a period of several months.
Hi, can you tell me again how long a Chapter 13 remains on your credit? I had to file for one due to $1MM in medical bills in August 2009, it was discharged in August 2014. When will the “public record” come off of my credit report? I think it will be August of 2016, 7 years from the original filing date?